Please help me evaluate Apple offer

Oracle / R&D TLead
Jul 18 67 Comments

I got an offer from Apple today. The position is Technical Product Manager.

175k Base + 160k stocks over 4 years + 35k sign on bonus.

Year 1 TC: 250k

Would my TC decrease starting year 2? What is the performance bonus at Apple like? Also do you get refreshers every year or only after 4 years?

Does it mean that starting year 2, my TC will become 215k (175k base + 40k stocks)?

My competing offer is from Amazon paying 265k with an average of 250k over 4 years. Role at Amazon is L5 SDE2 in Bay Area

What is the future of TPM at Apple or other compnies?

Please help me evaluate Apple offer.

Current TC: 160k
YoE: 2.5

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TOP 67 Comments
  • Apple wa95014
    You shouldn’t take the Apple offer.

    Based on all of your posts it seems like you’ll probably need a lot of guidance and hand-holding, and that’s not really what Apple is about.
    Jul 21 3
    • Apple realTimCok
      Not exactly. This depends on your team. I’ve seen junior people joining and we give very detailed guidance. I heard Netflix would not prefer training junior folks though.
      Jul 22
    • Apple wa95014
      Did you read through this thread?

      OP repeats themself about 8 times and then asks others to basically make career decisions for them...
      Jul 22
    • Apple realTimCok
      OP only wants as much as input that people are willing to give him. Posting these on Blind doesn’t cost him/her a penny.
      Jul 22
  • Apple realTimCok
    Congrats. This is a great offer given it’s from Apple. Usually we don’t care to compete other offers.
    Jul 18 10
    • Apple realTimCok
      That’s a valid point. Apple doesn’t do a lot of PIP as Amazon does. If you are on OPT, better accept Apple offer. Very good offer, good job!
      Jul 18
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      I am on OPT. Has it ever been 0 refresher at Apple?

      Also dumb question if I may ask, how is Technical Product Manager role considered? I am currently SDE and it is a transition for me. I am worried if it is a wrong transition.

      Could you give any insights from your experience?
      Jul 18
    • Apple realTimCok
      This is not a bad transition, unless you are determined to do development. Just ask yourself what you love to do and what you are good at. Anyway this ICT4 offer is great for 2-3 yoe. How did you get there?
      Jul 18
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Thank you. Right now I still like Development. But 5 years from now I would like to be managing teams, working for ideas on new features and leading teams.

      Also can you comment on refreshers?

      I happened to work on entrepreneurship and product management at school. Got CS degrees from 2 of the top 6 schools in US. Have competing offer from Amazon and potential offer from Facebook.

      I am asking about refreshers because Amazon’s pay on an average for 4 years is 250k. Do you think Apple’s offer may exceed that including refreshers?
      Jul 18
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      @realTimCok how is the future of TPM at Apple? Could you please advice? If I take Apple and work hard, do you think I could succeed at Apple?

      I’m genuinely confused between the two offers and I need H-1B. I am more worried about that. I also want to go for MBA in future. Please advice.
      Jul 21
  • Apple majong
    Are you sure the recruiter isn’t trolling you? We don’t pay this much to someone with a 2.5 yoe
    Jul 18 1
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      I am sure the recruiter isn’t trolling. I have competing offers from Amazon, FB.

      Also how are refreshers? Will my TC be just 215k after first year? This is AMP Org.

      How is Technical Product Manager position? It is a transition for me from SDE to PM
      Jul 18
  • Apple wa95014
    OP.

    There are plenty of threads about how refreshers at Apple work that a simple search and some reading will yield you.

    Also, if you’re concerned about Amazon PIP culture, because you’re on OPT, then the money shouldn’t be the primary area of concern. The job security should.

    Do a search.
    Jul 21 4
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Thank you. I’ve actually done research. I couldn’t find one thing. Say I get 50k refreshers at the end of first year, when do they vest?

      Also according to you, would moving from SDE to TPM be a good idea? In terms of H-1B.
      Jul 21
    • Apple wa95014
      I’d search again.

      50% of the posts are about comp and rsus
      Jul 21
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      I would. Also could you provide insights on future for TPM? Is it a good idea? Because I am transitioning from SDE to TPM. I know the career line for SDE but I am confused about career trajectory for TPM. I do want to go get MBA in future from top 3.
      Jul 21
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Like you said, how is job security at Apple? For TPM.
      Jul 21
  • Apple 🍎⌚️
    Extremely high offer for YOE. Must be extremely high expectations too. Good luck!
    Jul 18 11
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Thanks. What I’m asking is would TPM experience help if I want to go for MBA?
      Jul 20
    • Apple foglzkx
      I don't have much idea about that..but I've only seen people do the other way around..to get into product management people do mba..
      Jul 20
    • Apple foglzkx
      If you're already getting that opportunity, why again a mba..I personally feel you're lucky to be able to move into product management..but be wise, clearly check with your prospective manager about the responsibilities and make the decision..apple lies a lot, so ask a lot of questions and get to know clearly what you'll be doing..
      Jul 20
    • Apple foglzkx
      And never ever trust the recruiter..talk to the hiring manager..
      Jul 20
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Good point. I will talk to the hiring manager to get insights on the responsibilities. The recruiter just tried to sell the role which I am able to understand. But I am evaluating this offer with my other competing offers.
      Jul 20
  • Twitch d mifflin
    Is this ict4?
    Jul 18 11
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Could you tell me how Consumer Org at Amazon is? Also I am genuinely worried. Point is I don’t actually want to start PM role soon. At the same time I hear it is not coming to get ICT4 Level Apple with 2.5 YoE.
      Jul 19
    • Apple wa95014
      You already accepted the amazon offer?

      You can withdraw anytime, but they are definitely going to make a note about that in your candidate file.

      People do it. Do what’s best for you, but know there are definitely consequences to that.
      Jul 21
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Yes I have accepted the Amazon offer. The recruiter from Amazon didn’t give me much time and I had no other option then. So I took it.

      Now I am debating if a move from SDE to TPM is a good idea or not in terms of future growth and H-1B. Please advice.
      Jul 21
    • Twitch d mifflin
      Yeah Amazon recruiters are notorious for not giving time and exploding offers. Don’t let that deter you from pulling out if you need to.
      Jul 21
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      What would you suggest between Alexa Shopping team in East Palo Alto and Apple AMP org TPM position? I could take TPM but I am worried about H-1B. I have two more tries and I need H-1B
      Jul 21
  • Apple dr amazing
    Why don’t you talk to people actually in this position instead of posting here?
    Jul 21 8
    • Apple dr amazing
      Yes and Yes. ICT4 to M1 is considered a lateral move.
      Jul 21
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Perfect! Thank you for your information. And I am not insecure. I trust that Apple would take care of my Visa if I join. The only thing I wasn’t sure about is what are the opportunities for TPM at Apple. I know how future looks like if I stay as SDE. I could become staff Software Engineer and so on. So I wanted to learn from Apple folks if there is a growth and opportunity for TPM or not.

      Thanks again.
      Jul 21
    • Apple dr amazing
      Glad to help. AFAIK TPMs are part of the technical staff so they will eventually hit the ceiling of the director of the org. So your path for growth might be more managerial than for technical engineers.
      Also I can confirm that we are using EPMs more than before for projects, specially if cross funcional.
      Jul 21
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Thank you. That shows that there is future for TPMs at Apple. Plus I do not want to jump companies often. If I take this move to Apple then I see myself at Apple for good amount of time. At least for the next 4 years.

      On a side note, I see a lot of posts on blind about PIP culture at Amazon. Is Apple like that too? Or would Apple value employees if they work and contribute?
      Jul 21
    • Apple dr amazing
      Apple doesn’t have a culture of PIP. It is quite uncommon to hear someone been fired or even PIPed.
      Jul 21
  • Apple foglzkx
    Apple lied to the tpm in my group about the responsibilities. All she does now is sending follow-up emails and setting up meetings..and she's being treated like a piece of shit by my manager and the people in the group. She'll be going around and begging the engineers even to compose a simple email. From the years of exp you have I'm pretty sure you're gonna be treated in a similar way..the person I'm talking abt has 15+ yrs of experience and she herself is unable to figure out how to deal with my manager and his best friends in the group that are literally abusing her by not sharing enough information she needs..

    She's a really bright person that came from one of the renowned product companies where she was performing product manager duties..

    Apple is a very toxic company to work..you'll be in the dream world thinking you're gonna work for apple. Think wise and make your decision..
    Jul 20 1
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      May I ask which org it is? Also my other competing offer is L5 SDE2 from Amazon. Would you suggest I take that?
      Jul 20
  • New / Eng
    happi

    New Eng

    PRE
    Visa
    BIO
    Fresher
    happimore
    Woww
    Jul 18 0
  • Apple Tubelite
    Yes, the bonus will be counted only in the first year. Refreshers will be granted every year based on perf.
    Forget future of TPM, you’ll get life here 😉
    Jul 18 3
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Hey so what could my yearly TC be like? Do you suggest I take Apple’s offer?

      I am currently a Software Engineer. I would like your advice on transition.

      I am worried that my TC will be 215k after first year. How are the average refreshers? And also is there annual hike in base salary?

      Please advice.
      Jul 18
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      Also do you get yearly refreshers starting year 2? Or do I have to wait 4 years to get refreshers?
      Jul 18
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      @Tubelite how is the future of TPM? I mean does it help if I want to be a PM at Apple in future? I am worried about career trajectory.
      Jul 21
  • Qualcomm
    TCChaser

    Qualcomm

    PRE
    Amazon
    TCChasermore
    Take Amazon, you will learn a lot and can easily transition to TPM role later
    Jul 18 1
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      I am worried about PIP culture at Amazon. Plus I am on F1 OPT and I only have 2 more tries for H1B. I am worried what would happen if Amazon puts me on PIP.
      Jul 18
  • Akamai Technologies Libtard
    How did you get A TPM role
    directly at Apple? Are you currently SWE or PM?
    Jul 18 1
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      OP
      I am a SWE. Point is do you know how refreshers work at Apple?
      Jul 18
  • Microsoft encrypt
    can you share the interview experience. Got a siri EPM interview comming up
    7d 0