Sexual Harassment in big companies
I keep reading sexual harassment news in big tech companies. Google says fired 48 people. What exactly these people do to harass sexually? Can you guys please give some real examples? I'm guessing no one would have dare to touch a woman without her permission in the big tech companies. Why would they do it? At least I assume they don't directly touch with out getting clues from other side? I'm not saying women gives the clues to touch and then complain. Please don't misunderstand my question and start attacking me. I simply wonder how and why these guys do it if they don't see that the woman is not ready or willing to have any kind of sexually relationship. I mean don't they know that the woman has no interest just seeing how she talks with him? What exactly they are doing? Do these people touch women with out permission intentionally? Do they use sexually abusing during argument? Or do they indirectly ask the woman to sleep with them? Obviously I assume these 99% cases could be men harassing woman not other way around.
This is all about money and career. Most of those harassments probably didn’t happen, probably there was ambiguous situation that was escalated to enormous scandal. Usually both sides are beneficial, almost always victim is (media buzz, severance package, etc). This is how it looks and how looks one way of building temporar celebrities.
Benefits both ways? I understand that the victim may benefit. How both?
Rubin got $90m. The higher you are, the better money you can get.
First some context. Google probably has ~80k employees. 48 firings is a tiny, tiny fraction. Likely no bigger than anywhere else percentage wise (even though 1 is 1 too many, I’m not saying it is okay). What can be classified as sexual harassment? 1. Asking someone on a date - after already being told no. You have only one shot! 2. Unwelcomed touching. 3. Making a person feel obligated to go on a date (asking a subordinate out is never ok). 4. Making comments that reinforce gender stereotypes. 5. Unwelcomed persistent comments about someone’s appearance/body. To avoid getting fired, Try following these rules: 1. Keep business about business. You are all there for the mission. Keep it classy. 2. Don’t get involved in office relationships. Even if they start out well they can turn sour. Keep it classy. 3. Always have witnesses with you when engaging someone of the opposite sex, or stay in open/transparent areas. Keep it classy.
How about setting up a lunch with an esteemed member belonging to the honorable opposite gender? What if that said person is also a subcontractor? Could she make an honest mistake of seeing this as a date rather than networking, even when it is not? What if I like her company? Should I be worried that she may have accepted out of politeness? I wonder if I made a mistake. I can't sleep.
I cancelled the lunch invite. I am feeling much better.
In my experience the vast majority of men (as you suggest) can readily avoid sexually harassing. Mostly they strictly avoid sexual behavior with coworkers. Others adequately read signals and keep it relatively classy. Most of the harassment is the result of a few men (1% to at most 5% depending on workplace culture). In my experience either they can’t tell or don’t care (or there is a serious problem leading to a lack of self-control). A good employer manages out a serial harasser. A bad employer manages out the people harassed. Woman here (if it matters).
100% agreed. Men should behave themselves. HOWEVER, with the #metoo movement, I see harassment being used as a retaliation tool against men, or simply to be included in a group that has some purpose. Compared to a few years back, it just seems like many immediately use harassment any time they feel uncomfortable with any situation. This would be as opposed to just dealing with it like an adult. At this point, even my mom tells me all of this stuff is getting out of hand.
Mansplaining with evidenceless "just seems like" to somebody with direct experience. Nice. Glad you listen to at least one woman though: your mom. It's like "but I have Black friends."
It can be pretty blatant. I have two ex-coworkers who were fired for separate incidents where they got super wasted at an offsite and groped female coworkers. In front of everyone. I have another male ex-coworker who would not stop following around a woman from another team and asking her out. Like... almost every day he would ask and he would literally just follow her around all day wherever she went. He wasn't fired, but was moved to another office.
I think that if we take a minute to realize that there is no epidemic of women walking into HR departments just for fun, accusing people of harassment that never happened, and that speaking out almost always comes with steep costs to the victim, we might come to understand the situation better. Should a new college graduate have to “tolerate” a 45-year-old married colleague wondering out loud at work how they and and another female colleague might look in a changing room? Should another colleague have to hear that someone moved their desk because their attractiveness was making a male colleague physically aroused? Stuff like this happens all the time and women — including the other posters mother who said “it’s getting out of hand” — are deeply conditioned to just ignore it and move on. And by the way, if they do get brave enough to report harassment, they are almost always talked out of taking any formal action by HR.
^THIS
Woman here. Men can be very subtle harassers- In my early 20s I had a boss (not in tech) who mentioned his interest in BDSM and bizarre porn to me all the time. He obviously got his rocks off by doing this. I didn’t know what to do - he never touched me or asked me out, so was this even something I could report? I eventually left after 6 months. Women who are just trying to do their work should NOT have to put up with this shit, especially from supervisors.
You didn’t know what to do??? Was it something you should have reported??? How about a simple “I prefer you stop discussing your private life with me. I don’t find it appropriate” the first or (definitely) the second time he brought this up. There you go, problem solved.
I said that and he kept doing it. He was in a position of power over me and had the power to fire me. I was single and needed a job to live. Men do not get it.
I wanted to type something but then I saw your post about lunch with the colleague...in all seriousness, you need to get yourself a social coach, you clearly are misinterpreting the simplest of social situations and sound like you have trouble gauging how your behavior is perceived under normal circumstances.
Most of the sexual harassment I’ve witnessed is drunk middle aged women at conferences borderline molesting younger dudes.
If you're a senior exec, you can "suggest" subordinates to do things hinting at potential benefits (or repercussions)