Uber files S-1

Cloudera EECT24
Apr 11 386 Comments

1B$ net loss on 11.2B$ revenue in 2018. Revenue up 42% YoY. Operations loss was 3.03B$ in 2018.

Interestingly, in their S-1, they explicitly state “We expect our operating expenses to increase significantly in the foreseeable future, and we may not achieve profitability.”

Thoughts?

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TOP 386 Comments
  • Apple fruitco334
    Lol and dummies here want to say Uber is “Tier 1” - tier one companies make money, not somehow contrive a 100bn valuation while losing almost 2 bil a year...Christ.
    Apr 11 46
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Okta MongoDb are not profitable yet their stocks are growing like anything.
      Apr 11
    • Cisco / Product U there
      🙀
      Apr 11
    • As a software engineer i never applied to Apple and will never do so in future. My gut feeling is this apple person got rejected by Uber as 100s of apple employees get rejected. Apple as a business may be is great but apple on resume is awful on other hand uber’s business may not be great but uber on my resume is fantastic for my career. Guess what i care abt later.
      Apr 11
    • Clover Health sinkinship
      Your insecurities are showing. Chauvinism isn't becoming.
      Apr 11
    • Amazon / Eng
      onMyWay

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      AWS
      onMyWaymore
      Apple does software just fine. They maintain an OS that runs equally (and in some cases better) than the alternative OS on hardware that is significantly less powerful.
      Apr 12
    • Apple fruitco334
      @unotnothing as I stated I am a HW engineer so Uber was of no interest to me career wise. So nice theory but once again, not jealous and not rejected.

      Also if you seriously think Apple on your resume is “awful” you are an idiot of towering proportions.
      Apr 12
    • Coursera zVfi31
      @fruitco334 stop being jealous, sour grapes 😊
      Apr 12
    • Apple fruitco334
      As I said above, keep saying it and perhaps it will be true.

      Spoiler: it won’t
      Apr 12
    • Facebook
      B13captain

      Facebook

      BIO
      New grad with 10yoe
      B13captainmore
      I don’t think uber has earned the “hurr durr ur just jealous” badge yet. Most people at Uber aren’t going to earn Fuck You money, and they are still a ways from proving long term viability. On top of all that, a lot of growing up to do as a company, hot off of the past... 10 years? A few years ago you saw people scrambling over from FANG, but that was when the upside was much bigger, but nowadays it does feel like a smaller pond and lower reward over risk than the bigger players.
      Apr 12
    • Apple fruitco334
      ^thank you. Such hubris in thinking I’m jealous simply because of money.
      Apr 12
  • Square / Eng
    077

    Square Eng

    PRE
    Palantir, Google
    077more
    We are in an era beyond logic.
    Apr 11 18
    • Apple tmtnt
      Beyond common sense.
      Apr 11
    • Intel Who.Dis
      I’m glad we left the “old economy”. Geez, that was a sh*t show for a while. Much better now
      Apr 11
    • Apple tmtnt
      The 90s called, they want their dotcom bubble back.
      Apr 11
    • SAP ksYR03
      Google had +ve operating cash flow. Amazon had always +ve operating cash flow. Pls stop saying Tesla, Uber , Lyft are like them. They are not
      Apr 11
    • Bloomberg / Eng
      Fork()

      Bloomberg Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      Fork()more
      @SAP can confirm. All of them were cash flow negative years in the first few years (as expected) but they were all well into cash flow positive territory long before an IPO. Amazon would have bee sooner had it not been sideswiped by the dotcom bubble. Maybe Jeff has a point about free cash flow.

      Point being, they did not sustain long term losses on their core business. Their growth initiatives ate whatever margin they had, which is a good thing.

      Borrowing from Letter to pay Paul is not a good long term business strategy. I can get a business with 4 digits growth if I give away a dollar every 50 cents you give me.
      Apr 11
    • SAP ksYR03
      Exactly. It’s all like a Ponzi scheme. Keep selling $1 for $.80 as long someone funds it. The moment money stops it all ends. VCs now dumping on retail to make billions. Retail to be the bag holder. Btw look at Operating Cash Flow instead of Free Cash Flow. That is more imp and Amazon and Google all had that before IPO. Tesla, Uber , Lyft doesn’t.
      Apr 11
    • eBay / IT
      manorama

      eBay IT

      BIO
      Coder
      manoramamore
      @sap main difference between the two - operating vs free flow ?
      Apr 12
    • SAP ksYR03
      Google u will learn. Free cash flow takes into account CapEx and other depreciation etc. CapEx is how much money u r investing in growing ur business. That is company subjective. So that’s why I took out of that and just look at operating cash flow. And as I predicted Uber just now like Lyft said they may never make profit. But they are still going for $100B
      Apr 12
    • SAP ksYR03
      Apr 12
    • Hertz !XXX!
      @manorama free cash Flow is including capital expenditures
      Apr 15
  • Uber rolex
    FAANG people who build a button with 20 engineers cannot comprehend how uber Uber is. Who uses Facebook anymore? Who’s excited about the new iPhone whatever? The king of the startups is coming to the market. The stock will go 2x the first day. You should short your retirement home stocks.
    Apr 11 21
    • Ahah the Uber bros drinking the Koolaid. It's amazing
      Apr 11
    • Facebook
      R1s2x3

      Facebook

      PRE
      Google
      R1s2x3more
      Actually all of them have that growth, and make more money along the way
      Apr 11
    • Microsoft / Eng Computer💻
      Daddy keep going. I'm almost there
      Apr 11
    • Facebook zUrf70
      Bro u wanna buy back my Uber stock? I’ll sell to you at discount, $130bn valuationz
      Apr 11
    • Facebook a__
      If only all those trips in your bar chart actually made money instead of lost it, then you might really be onto something!
      Apr 11
    • Uber GavinB
      Time to go back into your watch case, Rolex
      Apr 12
    • ConocoPhillips Duck🦆
      Uber is literally a taxi service wtf are you so proud of
      Apr 12
    • Uber danke
      Really @duck "taxi service" joke? ... It's 2019 Remove that rock above you
      Apr 12
    • Uber stock is gonna take off like crazy. The losses are attributed mostly to customer incentive costs for growth. Once critical mass is reached they will dial that down suddenly become profitable.
      Apr 19
    • 😂😂😂😂
      Apr 19
  • Microsoft M💰FT
    Substantially better financials than Lyft! Lyft managed to lose 90% as much money with less than 1/6 of market share. Lyft is the yahoo of rideshare.
    Apr 11 2
    • Amazon lkjhgfpoi
      Winner
      Apr 11
    • Lyft LiftOober
      Not totally wrong, but you are comparing the wrong loss numbers.
      Apr 11
  • Amazon qGts51
    Can someone ELI5 why uber is making a loss when it seems like uber continues to make so many sales?
    Apr 11 10
    • Apple fruitco334
      Because it’s a cab company masquerading as a titan of technology
      Apr 11
    • Google take
      Because they subsidise the ride. The ride where you pay $5 is actually worth somewhere around $7-8. Uber pays the difference.
      Apr 11
    • Apple BigBootey
      But they make it up in volume
      Apr 11
    • Apple fruitco334
      Evidently not

      Edit: whoosh for me
      Apr 11
    • Apple BigBootey
      Ahem that was a joke
      Apr 11
    • Uber ipl29
      There's a stark difference between
      - selling 1 dollar bills for 90 cents
      - selling 1 dollar bills for $1.20 and spending 3 billion to tell more people about the deal and 1.5 billion more to figure out how to sell 1 dollar bills for $2.

      Those that don't understand the difference are welcome to short.
      Apr 11
    • NIO PnAN38
      I love how the last reply here is basically implying Uber’s business model is to spend $Bs to convince customers that $1=$2

      Disruptive bro
      Apr 11
    • Uber ipl29
      It's called expansion, bro. You can set up a lemonade stand on the street corner and have positive 80% profit margins on day one on $50 revenue. File your S-1 and let me know how it goes.
      Apr 11
    • Apple fruitco334
      There’s always money in the banana stand
      Apr 11
    • Nvidia madd
      That's not expansion. That's hype.
      Apr 11
  • Facebook lolwutm8
    Amazon hasn't achieved "profitability" either. Self driving cars are coming and when that happens they'll be able to cut their biggest cost. They'll be fine.
    Apr 11 26
    • Facebook lolwutm8
      If you think I mean being able to fall into your car and sleep while it takes you home that'll be a decade plus. Major cities like SF zoning areas for self driving taxis? Easily under 5 years.
      Apr 11
    • Amazon
      gogjasrt

      Amazon

      PRE
      Amazon
      gogjasrtmore
      Let there be a SDV in India, then we can talk.
      Apr 11
    • eBay / IT
      manorama

      eBay IT

      BIO
      Coder
      manoramamore
      @wosncb amazon - why employees are considered tax shield ? - how does ir matter tax wise if corporates pay you cash or stock based compensation . Even for stock based compensation , corporates need to buy back stocks from secondary market
      Apr 12
    • Amazon Amzn100
      Why are you bothering to ask on here? Just google “why didn’t Amazon pay any tax” or “corporate tax effects of stock based compensation”. An answer wouldn’t fit here.
      Apr 12
    • Amazon wosncb
      Again, our CFO flat out admitted that our comp model is in place for this specific reason AND took credit for employees paying tax by saying Amazon pays its fair share.
      Apr 12
    • Redfin lisafrank
      Lmao no.
      Apr 12
    • eBay / IT
      manorama

      eBay IT

      BIO
      Coder
      manoramamore
      @amazon stock based compensation is useful to keep cash flow same, which is good for company, and increase outstanding shares , which is bad for investors . Tax wise there is no difference in paying cash versus paying stocks to employees, as corporates record it as business expense .
      Apr 12
    • Google take
      @ebay: actually there is. Look up online. There are lots of articles and videos explaining this.
      Apr 12
    • Amazon wosncb
      ^ this. If your CFO goes on the record in front of all their employees and admits that, I’m pretty sure they know what they’re talking about.
      Apr 12
    • Travelport / Eng buttnpushr
      Aws kind of subsidizes all the losses from retail. Btw can someone explain how tf are those two not broken apart already?
      Apr 12
  • Apple BigBootey
    Uber is an inherently flawed, unscalable business. Unless it is capable to put driverless cars on the street soon, it will collapse.
    Apr 11 12
    • New tuBF65
      For next 10 years autonomous cars are going to be way expensive than human drivers. Car alone will cost $150k a piece. On top of that infrastructure to support it..
      Apr 11
    • Dropbox 250F
      Unlike Lyft, Uber is diversifying their business. Credit cards, self driving, etc.
      Apr 11
    • Oracle / Design MiddleWest
      Yeah, exactly. Uber has a much broader perspective on the idea of moving things from one point to another. Lyft’s message is comparatively muddled—like the language is clear, I just don’t see how it translates into profit.
      Apr 11
    • Intel Who.Dis
      I can’t see a world without an automotive FAA if self-driving cars become prolific. The development prices will skyrocket.
      Apr 11
    • Uber notroll
      Flying cars y’all 💸💸💸
      Apr 11
    • Travelport / Eng buttnpushr
      You mean helicopters?
      Apr 12
    • Intel Who.Dis
      That isn’t a flying car is it? We’re talking about Tesla’s experiment testing if Elon’s car can fly and then land itself.
      Apr 12
    • Travelport / Eng buttnpushr
      It's got doors, it's got seats, it can fly. Sure it's got that ugly fan on top but besides that it fits the description
      Apr 12
    • AT&T / Eng
      DDM2K

      AT&T Eng

      PRE
      Optum, Windstream, AT&T, Verizon
      DDM2Kmore
      The NHTSA but with street marshals
      Apr 15
    • Intel Who.Dis
      ^Nah man, no need for localized enforcement. The ideal is requirements during development ensured before deployment.
      Apr 15
  • Microsoft fudgeyou
    Where/when can I short this pump and dump stock? (Serious question)
    Apr 11 33
    • SAP ksYR03
      For anyone who thinks Uber will make money they will never. And they say that too
      Apr 12
    • Travelport / Eng buttnpushr
      I was talking about monopolism actually
      Apr 12
    • eBay / IT
      manorama

      eBay IT

      BIO
      Coder
      manoramamore
      @sap thanks 🙏🏼. Why is operation loss more than net loss . 3b vs 1b
      Apr 12
    • Travelport / Eng buttnpushr
      Tldr uncle sam lets you get your taxes back of you fuck up real bad
      Apr 12
    • eBay / IT
      manorama

      eBay IT

      BIO
      Coder
      manoramamore
      @travelport if they are consistently losing money every year including previous year , how are they getting any tax refunds of amount of $2b , to make NOL of $1b?
      Apr 12
    • Travelport / Eng buttnpushr
      Accounting magic?
      Apr 12
    • Two Sigma blarh
      Literally no point shorting uber when Lyft exists. They are worse in every measurable metric.
      Apr 16
    • Intel Who.Dis
      Does that assume that Uber becomes profitable from LYFT’s demise?
      Apr 16
    • Two Sigma blarh
      If uber crashes and burns, it necessarily implies lyft will, too, crash and burn. If lyft crashes and burns, uber may not necessarily crash and burn. That is the key difference.
      Apr 16
  • Google / Eng catburglar
    How does the compare to Lyft?
    Apr 11 7
    • eBay / Eng
      mDBW53

      eBay Eng

      PRE
      NVIDIA
      mDBW53more
      Bigger company. Bigger market share. Bigger losses.
      Apr 11
    • Amazon lkjhgfpoi
      Race to the bottom!
      Apr 11
    • And Uber just bought Careem.
      Apr 11
    • Cruise Automation sl1msh4dy
      Holy shit this the funniest, most misleading graphic ever. Colors in entire countries if uber “operates” there, never mind the market share there. Leaves a tiny dot for every other company. By the same logic that uber is shaded in, the entire U.S. should be pink also since lyft is all over the U.S. or are you telling me lyft only operates in New York? Jesus what a false spread of information.
      Apr 11
    • Lyft yrfrwd
      And uber has stake in ola .. awesome news 😁
      Apr 11
    • Amazon bayyzoes
      That graphic is blatantly one sided
      Apr 11
    • Uber / Eng
      @w@

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Capital One
      @w@more
      What a stupidly biased chart
      Apr 12
  • Apple BigBootey
    I’m laughing thinking about your face when you find out you can’t sell your stock right away and watch its value melt away as the company tanks...
    Apr 11 7
    • Uber Yaka
      Yeah every ipo has a lockup period. That's the risk. But why would you laugh at employees losing money? Are you miserable?
      Apr 11
    • Uber ipl29
      He's just bitter and angry because his company's sole innovation every year is a higher price on their one product.
      Apr 11
    • Uber dneb
      Everyone already knew about lock up period...
      @Yaka probably jealous
      Apr 11
    • Uber / Eng
      sight

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Cisco, Dell
      sightmore
      Doesn’t matter even if the stock does tank in the short term. What matters is long-term. We have strong signals for growth and are making investments in the right areas.

      Apple for a period was investing in the wrong places and was days away from Bankruptcy (has to be bailed out by Microsoft!), but later invested in the right areas which ultimately lead to a trillion dollar market cap. Gotta think long.
      Apr 11
    • Apple BigBootey
      No, I just hate Uber and arrogant people who brag
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      Who's bragging?
      Apr 11
    • BigBootey - you definitely got rejected by Uber!
      Apr 11
  • Google EVsM02
    That's actually not as bad i as i thought
    Apr 11 4
    • Amazon lkjhgfpoi
      Put down those kale chips my Google friend!
      Apr 11
    • Intel wannafly
      and also the avocado toast
      Apr 11
    • Facebook whodattt
      I agree with this too. For a growth company of that size doesnt sound that bad.
      Apr 11
    • Microsoft Jeph Bezos
      What are you talking about? Google, amazing and even Facebook had a legit plan to become profitable. What’s Uber’s plan? Hope drivers work for free?
      Apr 11
  • Uber BqIl70
    The way I explain it to people outside of Uber is that it’s like a hotel chain. Imagine that company builds a hotel one year for $100m but has 0 customers in the year of construction. That company effectively “loses” 100m that year, but in the years following its construction costs are far lower and it’s able to turn a profit. Uber is effectively “building lots of hotels” right now by starting new businesses and entering new cities.
    Apr 11 9
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Do we see those trends in the s-1? The lowering capital costs and increasing revenues?
      Apr 11
    • Uber @#%^&
      It is in the S1. Just read it.
      Apr 11
    • Spotify gzjekelb
      The way I explain it to people who work at Uber is that it’s like a Ponzi scheme that they aren’t in on.

      Early investors will make tons but later investors will lose a lot of money.
      Apr 11
    • Google anononly
      Poor analogy. Proof of bearing a low IQ.

      Uber builds infra for enabling ride app, not physical estates like hotel/home/restaurants.
      Apr 11
    • Uber / Eng
      sight

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Cisco, Dell
      sightmore
      Uber has employees working in over 600 locations worldwide. Lots of boots on the ground to work with local regulators, city planning and driver on boarding. It’s not just an app being delivered from SF. Ridesharing requires significant local Ops to get the engine running. The global employee expansion plans for this year are massive.
      Apr 11
    • eBay / Eng
      mDBW53

      eBay Eng

      PRE
      NVIDIA
      mDBW53more
      More like they built the hotels and let every homeless person in the world try them out for a year for free.
      Apr 11
    • Uber / Eng
      sight

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Cisco, Dell
      sightmore
      More like restaurants. Give away a free meal to get someone to taste the product. Then they like what they get and come back on their own dime.
      Apr 11
    • Uber BqIl70
      Wow, there are some really salty people on this thread
      Apr 11
    • Microsoft M💰FT
      Uber is the bed and breakfast of hotels. Home owners who can’t afford their mortgages rent out a room and make people feel welcome. Meanwhile, the hotel empires (auto companies) are creating technologies that allow their hotels to be minimally staffed by humans and advertise their own hotel services with their century old brand names.
      Apr 12
  • Twitter Oomnj
    $12B in losses since 2014. Wow!
    Apr 11 5
    • Uber ipl29
      ???
      Apr 11
    • Twitter Oomnj
      *since
      Apr 11
    • You forgot to begin your sentence with "Only"
      Apr 11
    • Microsoft Hyad70
      It's all of their overpaid developers
      Apr 11
    • Salesforce LGhW03
      So who got rich in the $12bn “losses”...is that all employee salaries??
      Apr 12
  • Lyft uHdD40
    Sure looks like some Apple employees in here got rejected from their onsites at Uber. wew lad the butthurt is off the charts.
    Apr 11 2
    • Uber dneb
      Actually though...
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      lol. Why is there so many sour apples
      Apr 11
  • Quantcast / Eng HEE468
    Lyft is a much better short candidate. They have no hope of ever becoming profitable. This is how you can look at Uber’s 1+ billion loss. Uber spends over half billion on advertising and more than that on self-driving. It can easily become profitable if it wants to (but it definitely shouldn’t anytime soon). It’s insane to short Uber while there is Lyft.
    Apr 11 9
    • Uber / Eng
      sight

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Cisco, Dell
      sightmore
      Exactly! Someone around here gets it.
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      I hope Lyft bros do well. They are worthy competitors and their employees deserve to be rewarded.
      Apr 11
    • Why not short both? The valuation of Uber is based on the hope that they will extend. If they stop and just get profitable they are worth 10b$ max
      Apr 11
    • Google anononly
      Check your number. Uber’s loss is close to $2b. Refer to EBITDA loss, if you understand a business at all.

      Self-driving tech should cost both these companies a lot to invest over coming years. Until then they can’t be huge profitable. Profitability is not a binary 0 or 1; it’s a real/floating-point number.
      Apr 11
    • Quantcast / Eng HEE468
      Thank you! My number is indeed incorrect. But the picture I painted should remain largely the same. Plus - Uber is like Google and Lyft is like Bing but without a deep pocket.
      Apr 11
    • OSIsoft wikendHack
      Uber to Lyft is same as Waymo to Uber.

      So Uber's future is not as bright as you think it is.
      Apr 11
    • Uber / Eng
      sight

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Cisco, Dell
      sightmore
      Except that Alphabet, who owns Waymo, is also a major shareholder in Uber too.
      Apr 11
    • OSIsoft wikendHack
      Wow that makes it interesting. So alphabet makes money irrespective of a winner. But alphabet gains more with Waymo
      Apr 11
    • New / Eng |l|l||l|l|
      If waymo solves L5, it makes more sense to put their cars on Uber and Lyft than to try and set up their own network. Win-win-win situation
      Apr 12
  • Stand to earn $4m, even if it’s tanked to 50% of the ipo $ it’s fine by me
    Apr 11 4
    • Uber Yaka
      Man fuuuk u. lol. You must've joined in 2013
      Apr 11
    • Oracle / Eng wpooh
      Then it should drop more than 50% as you don't care. I will 🙏 for it
      Apr 11
    • Microsoft IEWf51
      Nice.
      Apr 11
    • Salesforce HowdieD
      Congrats. How many millionaires does Uber make with this IPO?
      Apr 14
  • Uber Yaka
    I'm just happy bc I can finally afford a motherfucking house in the bay area
    Apr 11 8
    • Hint: wait 7 months and let's talk about it again. I don't think you have as much as you think you have
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      Even if they crash by 50% (doubtful), I'll still have enough to buy a small home (in east or north bay) with cash
      Apr 11
    • Ok, I give you that. But that's only the delayed compensation that you would have sorry if you had worked anywhere else
      Apr 11
    • And yeah, I'm going to buy a shitload of put Options asap After it gets out. So I don't have the same view on you on the -50%
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      Doubtful I would have had that if I had stayed at Google. Basically I made 3x average variable compensation working here
      Apr 11
    • Indeed / Eng teeni
      When did you join yaka?
      Apr 11
    • Uber MagicShow
      Some of these dudes can’t get enough of telling us how much they want to short. Lmao
      Apr 12
    • Salesforce HowdieD
      Yaka, where are you gonna the house?
      Apr 14
  • Amazon callcancel
    I'm all in. See you guys on the beach 🌴
    Apr 11 2
    • Microsoft oufly
      Beach on the roof?😂
      Apr 11
    • Intel Who.Dis
      There’s a pool on the roof.
      Apr 11
  • Facebook whodattt
    Love how everyone i this thread suddenly became a trader guru.
    Apr 11 0
  • Tesla 100thieves
    Where are my Uber bros at? Orgy time 👀
    Apr 11 6
    • Uber uber1991
      Orgy time
      Apr 11
    • Tesla 100thieves
      Yea boi. Let’s get some 🐈
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      Lol is this a reference to a movie?
      Apr 11
    • Tesla 100thieves
      Who knows. Yo you guys heading to the strip club or what? Love to join.
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      I am sure there will be a lot of that going on. I just pray that shit doesn't make the news
      Apr 11
    • Facebook zUrf70
      100thieves, great comment, would read again.
      Apr 11
  • LinkedIn CCsf57
    All in for shorting, guess I won't see you on the beach
    Apr 11 6
    • Druva oddflxbtok
      All IPOs are restricted from options trading for 1 week. You can currently sell options on Lyft.

      Now to get around this you can sell some covered calls (if you’re actually insane, naked calls) on day one but again that’s insane.
      Apr 11
    • New / Eng 666 666
      Aren't naked calls illegal since last financial meltdown?
      Apr 11
    • Druva oddflxbtok
      No, you just need to have a certain portfolio value before you are allowed to sell certain naked calls and naked puts. It changes if you’re selling short term or long term naked calls or puts and things like that.
      Apr 11
    • Druva oddflxbtok
      And I was wrong. You can’t sell naked calls or puts as those would still be options during the option moratorium. You can however sell contracts above or below strike, but you’re going to need a market maker for that and market investors don’t have access to those, only institutional investors.
      Apr 11
    • Maxim Integrated / Eng neRx20
      Gotta love @ Gartner's typical SV mentality: if it doesn't exist in $SV_Startup_App it must not exist anywhere 🤣

      Gee, I don't know, maybe one of the other bajillion brokerages out there?
      Apr 11
    • Uber
      2muchblind

      Uber

      PRE
      Apple, Microsoft
      2muchblindmore
      Please short Uber stock
      Apr 11
  • eBay BigSanta
    Are engineers that joined few years ago rich?
    Apr 11 13
    • Intel minmax
      Sde2?
      Apr 11
    • eBay BigSanta
      Sde1/2
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      Yeah if you joined in. 2015, you're probably going to make 4x what you would have at Google, assuming the stock price holds
      Apr 11
    • eBay / Eng
      Ragnaro

      eBay Eng

      PRE
      IBM
      Ragnaromore
      How much did they normally give? 50k?
      Apr 11
    • Microsoft diosmio
      10k RSUs over 4 years at best if joined 4 years ago
      Apr 11
    • Facebook zUrf70
      I will tell you because I joined Uber four years ago. 30k was a fair offer for senior, with 50k being high end (1%) and a lot of seniors bullied down to SWE 2 ~15-20k RSU offers.

      The last wealth generation for Uber happened when they rocketed from $4bn to $40bn. So, 2013 joiners are rich, maaaaybe very early 2014. After that, they’re backfilling the valuation.
      Apr 11
    • Snapchat BigCoin
      This is correct ^ Uber practically exploded and the only good time to join was in 2013 or earlier. Even Jan 2014 prolly didn’t get in before the 20Bn valuation. Those numbers align with other offers around that time as well.
      Apr 11
    • Facebook moonris
      What about a L6 joined in 2017?
      Apr 15
    • Snapchat BigCoin
      Of course L6 will still get 420+ (TC high as a kite), but L6 back in 2013 would have been far better
      Apr 17
    • Alibaba
      us citizen

      Alibaba

      BIO
      Why should anyone put a bio on blind? Who is your product guy?
      us citizenmore
      How much is one RSU?
      Apr 19
  • Google bro code
    A lot of great things lose money. I think Uber genuinely made transportation easier.
    Apr 11 2
    • Uber Yaka
      Yeah they did. Before Uber I would have to be desperate to take a Taxi. Smelly cars, rude drivers, price gouging etc. All those things are gone with Uber/Lyft
      Apr 11
    • Google bro code
      I've gotten so many free rides and deliveries thanks to VCs
      Apr 12
  • Google Geist
    The question is, how does Uber's negative return compare with the negative interest rates we'll be getting in the next recession?
    Apr 11 0
  • Google anononly
    EBITDA loss is what one should one read.. it’s $1.9B.. for a meager $11.3B business.. Meh

    1.5b rides generate $11.3b only = $7.5 / ride ~ cost of 2 espresso.
    Apr 11 11
    • Google anononly
      Not for Bay Area where Uber HQ is. SFH in good part of city easily goes $2.5m.
      Apr 11
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Not most of their rides are in United States. They are growing in India.
      Apr 11
    • Facebook wootness
      Google clearly has the hiring bar at the wrong place, your leetcode is clearly not a match to your social skills
      Apr 11
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Why is Amazon investing in India?
      Apr 11
    • Google anononly
      I’ve no hate to Uber or to any country. We talk here about valuation, and to prove that it must show growth in highest rev zone.

      I worked at Facebook earlier; and it’s not their growth in SE-Asia that investors valued much, but concern on growth saturation in North America & Europe. I still remember last year on July 25 FB lost 20%; IIRC highest valuation loss for any company ever. FB has monopoly power, so just making more Ad impression it can still grow handsomely short term. Not same for Uber.

      Same is for Amazon. They conquered US retail already and Bezos showed his competency investing in Cloud starting back in 20004, led by some ex-Academics now known as Vogel. Even smart folks at Google didn’t conceive it back then, and Microsoft just followed the path. Such innovation, like Cloud, is beyond Uber’s business scope: ride, delivery, freight- everything existed before. So it won’t be a winner get all business ever!
      Apr 11
    • Facebook wootness
      Fundamentals of valuation are out of the window for quite a while now. Hate the comparison as it’s not quite apples to apples but lots of value investors were trashing Amazon for years on years with similar reasoning and saying it has no competitive advantage, burns cash and no barriers of entry. Time has shown there is some value to customer stickiness, volume growth and pivoting into other spaces. Uber is clearly doing some of that with Uber eats and other business bets. Clearly lots of investment is heading to Uber, so at least some folks are putting money where their mouth is. Time will tell if the bets pay off. Lots of folks would rather work on risky bets as well and it seems like a good company overall.
      Apr 11
    • Google anononly
      ^ check the fact:
      - customer service: non-existent vs best in class. I use Uber/lyft 4-5 times a week, and lyft almost always cheaper. So it gets my $. Loyalty doesn’t exist on ride sharing platform. As simple as it is.

      - valuation at IPO: 0.4 (1997) vs 100 billion (2019). Go back and check the inflation and compare at today’s value. And, remember 1997 was 3 years ahead of dot.com.

      - Amazon third-party sellers don’t live on ride/delivery tips like ripped-off drivers or delivery folks. Charge more to customers, then owning car would be optimal in developed countries (in Asian countries car ownership costs much more). Charge less; drivers will earn peanuts and will look for alternative earning.

      - Retail won’t save Amazon anyway; Cloud will. Uber has no scope of such business except self-driving. But even Waymo has no guts although they started back in 2009. Simple math says even 1 million L5 autonomous car will cost 40+ billions. Come back when a low-margin ride sharing business make aggregated mid-11 figure sums.
      Apr 11
    • Facebook wootness
      Stay comfortable on that high horse. Clearly Google never runs money-losing product bets and only works on sure thing right. Only difference is Google has the luxury of burning own cash due to crazy margins on the ads business. Would have been more rational by your logic to return it all to investors and not spend on Waymo and tons of other products Google built and killed over the years.

      It’s fine to have skepticism, you are entitled to your opinion, but you may want to be more considerate that others are less risk averse and like moonshot ideas and getting their skin in the game. Some by building them, some by investing in them.

      Keep spitting on their dreams, it won’t make much difference, but at least stay more civil unlike your in earlier comments.
      Apr 12
    • Google anononly
      You can’t argue based on facts and rationales to carry a meaningful discussion rather your points are based on convoluted hypothesis. Like if Amazon, if Google , if Facebook; then why not Uber.. etc. etc.

      Resigning this thread, and blocking you so never have to see your irrational hypothesis in any posts in future.
      Apr 12
    • Facebook wootness
      I must be doing it wrong, I know. Seems like using rational hypothesis involves calling people names and blocking those you disagree with. Noted
      Apr 12
  • Google zzzyyxxx
    “We may not achieve profitability”. Where have we read this in the recent past ? Yes. SNAP and then LYFT and next is UBER. This market is nuts :)
    Apr 11 10
    • Uber / Eng
      sight

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Cisco, Dell
      sightmore
      If autonomy ends up going nowhere, this is true. Nobody has proven the model yet. Investing in Uber is a bet on automative autonomy and AI.
      Apr 11
    • Google zzzyyxxx
      Uber is miles behind other self drive car companies.
      Apr 11
    • Uber / Eng
      sight

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Cisco, Dell
      sightmore
      I’m not sure about that, but Uber is miles ahead of the other self driving cars when it comes to building a network and deploying boots on the ground. Strategic partnerships are not out of the question.
      Apr 11
    • Nvidia madd
      A network of what? Users?
      Apr 11
    • Cruise Automation sl1msh4dy
      @uber sight is correct. Solving the autonomous car problem is only one half of the puzzle. The other half is to profit off of it, of which uber is miles ahead of anyone else
      Apr 11
    • Nvidia madd
      Exactly which part of Uber is profiting?
      Apr 11
    • Cruise Automation sl1msh4dy
      I didnt say they were profiting. I said they have the infrastructure needed for self driving car companies to profit off of self driving cars
      Apr 11
    • Nvidia madd
      So you're saying they don't have either half of the equation figured out?
      Apr 11
    • Cruise Automation sl1msh4dy
      Yup
      Apr 11
    • Nvidia madd
      Agreed
      Apr 11
  • Pinterest 男女日光浴
    Lol an online taxi company built on pure criminality, unethical behavior, and fraud. I hope the execs are indicted under the RICO act and spend decades in jail!
    Apr 11 2
    • Uber ipl29
      Did you buy a bunch of medallions and lobby your local government together with other members of your cartel to then find your "investment" crater and are now bitter?
      Apr 11
    • Uber notroll
      Haha you are not wrong my friend. Same thing could be said about a lot of businesses, but proportionality... if you enjoyed an easy airport trip, it’s all that mattered to us :)
      Apr 11
  • ConocoPhillips Duck🦆
    How is it possible to lose that much money per year?
    Apr 11 5
    • Spotify gzjekelb
      Because their investors are very rich and very dumb and continued to subsidize a core business model that is unsound.
      Apr 11
    • Uber ipl29
      Whoa. Sounds like Softbank / TPG / Toyota etc all should hire you as their chief advisor!
      Apr 11
    • Facebook zUrf70
      Mmm, Spotify is right—the investors are “dumb” in normal gravity, but venture capital of late has been like Martian or Jupitarian (not a word) gravity.
      Apr 11
    • Maxim Integrated / Eng neRx20
      The word you're looking for is Jovian
      Apr 11
    • Facebook zUrf70
      You da best. ^^
      Apr 12
  • Dropbox puts&calls
    I've never witnessed so much jealousy in one place. Best of luck, Uberoos! This is good for everyone in tech.
    Apr 11 4
    • Google LyLs67
      Rational thought is not jealousy
      Apr 11
    • Facebook wootness
      Rational jealousy :)
      Apr 11
    • Google LyLs67
      Whatever..
      Apr 11
    • Uber notroll
      Thanks! We gonna need it. All that toil hopefully make some good :)
      Apr 11
  • VMware / Other KhGTvf
    “We may not achieve profitability” - that’s just a cop out so people can’t sue them for running negative $s all day. With all that said this is a far better standing than Lyft
    Apr 11 2
    • Uber ipl29
      Isn't that standard S-1 language? Even if your company is consistently profitable you still have to state something like "we may not be able to maintain profitability".
      Apr 11
    • Uber / Eng
      sight

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Cisco, Dell
      sightmore
      Exactly!
      Apr 11
  • Verizon QusA00
    I wonder who is going to fill up the tank when a driverless cars runs out of gas 🤔
    Apr 11 8
    • Uber Yaka
      They'll be a self driving fueling ⛽ tanker 🚚 of course that they can dock to
      Apr 11
    • Uber ipl29
      Wait .. you're telling me that in a world where AI is good enough for driving on the road, having automated refueling is still an unsolvable problem?
      Apr 11
    • Uber Yaka
      Only in Oregon you still need a person to pump it for you though
      Apr 11
    • Verizon QusA00
      Thanks UGs. This has been bugging me for days
      Apr 11
    • Uber ipl29
      Glad to clear it up for you :)
      Apr 11
    • Nvidia madd
      It'll probably be an electric car that can just drive in and get an entire battery cell replaced. Minimize downtime and hazard
      Apr 11
    • Uber notroll
      Wireless charging y’all
      Apr 11
    • Nvidia madd
      So slow
      Apr 11
  • Groupon / Eng sleepy
    I’m not sure if I see it wrong but Uber’s s-1 shows a positive net income but an ebidta loss for 2018. Can anyone else confirm what’s the case with this?
    Apr 11 2
    • Uber Yaka
      That's what Yahoo News reported as well
      Apr 11
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Overall, a lot better numbers than Lyft. I would think Lyft shares will take a hit tomorrow.
      Apr 11
  • Amazon Ha5fg1q
    When amazon went public, Bezos faced the same question re: profitability. His answer was something like: “Amazon isn’t profitable now, and I don’t see a time when it will be profitable in the near future.” It went public in 1997 at $18 a share. I looked at it that day and had $5000 to invest at $17.83 a share. I thought about that quote and invested in Timberland boots instead. I doubled my money in 3 years. That $5000 invested in Amazon would be $5 million today.

    YMMV
    Apr 12 5
    • Amazon 89&$@&
      That would have been $500,000 and not $5M
      Apr 12
    • Amazon Ha5fg1q
      Am I doing the math wrong? I see split adjusted IPO closing price of 1.47. With $5000 I could have bought 3400 shares. I assume I would have sold some to take some appreciation, and therefore $5 mil but if I kept all those shares I calculate today it would be a bit more than $6.1 mil.
      Apr 12
    • Amazon Ha5fg1q
      Please, let the math be wrong.
      Apr 12
    • Microsoft M💰FT
      Amazon’s market cap at IPO was $438 million, peanuts compared to $100 BILLION
      Apr 12
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      ^ that was because their revenue was only 15 million and they were, as per their s-1, targeting online book sales. Book market was around 30 billion at that time and Amazon’s moonshot project was digital book industry. Read Amazon’s s-1. I’m not saying Uber will be another Amazon but even Okta is losing 25% of it’s revenue.
      Apr 12
  • Nvidia zVEC05
    Lyft is just a copy cat of Uber. Uber dominates the ride-share market. They are also diversifying in to several areas.

    Their biggest risks are 1) continued lobbying & regulation brought on by bigger companies.
    2) Continuing to neuter themselves; they used to be bold & do amazing things, thumbing their nose at entrenched powers. Here’s hoping the Tiger is still there & they haven’t lost their edge.
    Apr 12 2
    • Facebook wootness
      I think they can still be aggressive in the industry without being aggressive in the office. For me Facebook has that DNA. Those stories about “dealing” with Vine and other competitors never translated into rampant workplace issues.

      You don’t have to be a bro to dominate the market. Might be correlated but not causal I’m certain.
      Apr 12
    • Microsoft
      Tier 1

      Microsoft

      BIO
      #1 in Prestige
      Tier 1more
      Facebook has a different business model. There’s is all about stealing ideas and other shady tactics.
      Apr 12
  • Uber Yaka
    I'm happy af
    Apr 11 2
    • Also happy to have another good candidate to short af
      Apr 11
    • Salesforce HowdieD
      How many millionaires does Uber make with this IPO, bro ?
      Apr 14
  • Uber
    mr mango

    Uber

    PRE
    Google, Facebook
    mr mangomore
    that’s a pretty standard ipo risk disclosure

    go check out past prospectuses / have you guys never dealt with lawyers??
    Apr 11 0
  • Microsoft microshit
    The Big Short! As if BMW or Benz etc when they have self driving cars they can't do this silly app, request your ride! UBER is a dump and will be a history. no harm to buy early and put stop-limit order on this stock. They are on IPO only because investors need the money.
    Apr 12 5
    • Facebook public2
      Shhh
      Apr 12
    • Uber Yaka
      Kinda like saying "Any fool can make Microsoft Office and make a billion dollars a week"
      Apr 12
    • Microsoft microshit
      Office is dying, Azure saved MS for now, just sell when you can!
      Apr 12
    • Facebook whodattt
      Obviously this guy has no sense of what market timing is. Guy thinks the reason MS was successful is that people coulsnt build OSes
      Apr 12
    • Facebook wootness
      Spoken like a true investor that can’t afford to short anything
      Apr 13
  • Facebook public2
    The best part: $1.2b in tips. Told ya!
    Apr 11 5
    • Oracle / Eng wpooh
      ?
      Apr 11
    • Facebook public2
      I posted a poll asking if yall tipped your driver and blind lost their mind saying no I was crazy. Turns out plenty of people enjoy above average service :)
      Apr 11
    • Pinterest 男女日光浴
      Anyone who doesn’t tip is a total asshole
      Apr 11
    • Nvidia madd
      What you're really saying is that Uber is the asshole for under paying and passing it on
      Apr 11
    • Uber / Ops Hd63gf7
      Do you not tip at restaurants? To go orders? Delivery? Are restaurants assholes?
      Apr 12
  • Uber
    mr mango

    Uber

    PRE
    Google, Facebook
    mr mangomore
    numbers look better than expected tbh

    contribution margin is good and so is narrowing losses plus growth in eats and freight
    Apr 11 2
    • eBay young💵
      Looks like bigsanta is v busy on blind. I think we must go fix the bugs before jeff bozo throws us out of business.
      Apr 11
    • eBay BigSanta
      My code doesn't have bugs
      Apr 11
  • eBay / Eng
    Ragnaro

    eBay Eng

    PRE
    IBM
    Ragnaromore
    Lyft better than uber
    Apr 12 2
    • Uber Yaka
      Not to invest in, imo
      Apr 12
    • Nvidia zVEC05
      Not on any front.
      Apr 13
  • IBM / Eng €=====3
    Thoughts? Hmm -25% Lyft
    Apr 11 0
  • Facebook
    Mrvx

    Facebook

    PRE
    Facebook
    Mrvxmore
    Don't people in these pre-IPO have a no sale clause once IPO? Like a 6month lock down when they cannot sell?
    Apr 11 4
    • eBay BigSanta
      What about engineers that left?
      Apr 11
    • eBay / Eng
      mDBW53

      eBay Eng

      PRE
      NVIDIA
      mDBW53more
      Usually some sort of lock in. I think the higher up the longer.
      Apr 11
    • eBay BigSanta
      So if you joined couple years ago as a entry engineer or lvl 2 u should have plenty?
      Apr 11
    • Facebook
      Mrvx

      Facebook

      PRE
      Facebook
      Mrvxmore
      As in there should be a hold out.. Otherwise everyone holding vested stocks cna sell on day 1? And tank the shares?
      Apr 11
  • Capital One
    TCisWet

    Capital One

    BIO
    Hello, I like turtles.
    TCisWetmore
    Dot com bubble 2.0 two decades later. Obviously not a "dot com" but at least the revenue is high.
    Apr 11 0
  • Microsoft IcYM02
    Just like Amazon was.. Same strategy to capture market
    Apr 11 0
  • Microsoft
    Tier 1

    Microsoft

    BIO
    #1 in Prestige
    Tier 1more
    Standard disclosure
    Apr 12 0
  • Google LyLs67
    1.85b ebitda loss.. but hey we are growing booking at 20 percent, the same as Google and less than Facebook. I don't get why this is a 100b company as opposed to a 50b company. What is the valuation rationale
    Apr 11 0
  • New ynGD50
    Tc ?
    Apr 11 0
  • VMware tr0llbu11y
    Is still good time to join?
    Apr 11 0
  • Intel ajalq
    How much is the stock priced internally?
    Apr 11 0
  • Amazon HipsterMe
    Valuation comes from terminal growth assumptions so profitability is expected and not only that outweighs the near and continued losses on a time value ...basically hopes and dreams value...
    Apr 11 0

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