Heard about the employee walkout taking place. What kind of impact do you think this will bring?
I think it’s great that employees can voice their opinions. But do you think Wayfair (or any company) needs to be responsible for how company products are used? 🤔
Heard about the employee walkout taking place. What kind of impact do you think this will bring?
- Cerner pfdP78If they really were serious, they’d quit. But it’s more convenient to threaten a 60-minute walkout.
- New / Design mnngmoreWith respect @sses , that isn't @vargasMost literally or even figuratively telling others what to do. He or she is setting a standard for what is genuimely meaningful action in his or her opinion. Its okay to disagree, but the discussion is better if we try to honestly qualify the statement and intent.
- I'm not really here for respect to be honest. I take words for how they're chosen. Setting standards, by definition, is telling people how to behave. It's okay to disagree *and* take the opponent's words for what they are without retroactively trying to qualify intent.
If it's not the intent, it can be restated. This is why words are powerful.
- Chase (╯°□°）╯Totally agreed with @206wrkr. If my company was manufacturing something that ended up killing people, obviously I would want nothing to do with it. But this is a case where Wayfair is selling beds to the government to improve the conditions in those detention centers -- what is wrong with that?
If you are looking for someone to blame for the humanitarian crisis at the border, how about considering the stupid racist clown sitting in the White House whose DHS only just now got around to purchasing beds for their detainees? ITT there has not been one mention of Trump or Nielsen, nor any suggestion that workers at DHS or border law enforcement should be the ones staging a protest, rather than the company selling beds. If I were at Wayfair, the only thing I would be asking my company to do would be to reduce the cost of or donate these beds in order to further alleviate the suffering taking place down there. Trying to block the sale of these beds by refusing to work to fulfill the order only extends that suffering, so it's a completely self defeating move, and that's exactly why I wouldn't join such a protest especially given the risk to my family's financial security losing my job would create.
Lots of mindless grandstanding ITT.
- Google YZG1QFSo should people in detention centers have no beds? Isn't it better for people in detention centers to have a comfortable place to sleep? I feel like protests like these center the thoughts and ideas of the protesters but not those who are impacted (those who are detained). For example, what if wayfair suceeds in not selling the detention center beds and as a result the detention center uses less good beds -- does that make protesters at wayfair just? or does it make them selfish?
- sses because I don’t see the usual descriptions as subhuman ones. I’m not convinced that here is no cause to separate families. Though there are obvious failings of individuals, the authorities that deal directly with illegal immigrants are made up of normal Americans with a job to do. Ive known dozens of such law enforcement people who engender a great deal of trust in those positions. Autonomy is probably too broad a description of their powers.
It all looks like Democrat posturing. And there is no need for it. If there are legit reasons to replace Trump in 2020 (and there are some) then get to them and focus on them. This was my position when the Reps were focusing on President Obama’s birth cert. It was a stupid distraction. I think Obama was doing things that were worthy of legit criticism... but the Reps ignored those things in favor of completely bogus issues. So reasonable people said "there’s nothin to be concerned about if this birth cert is the biggest concern.” I think this issue smells the same on the Dem side.
I could certainly be more educated on this specific issue. I’m just calling it as I see it atm.Jun 28 1
- I'm genuinely glad to hear you state you could be more educated on the topic. That said, I tend to withhold judgement and even opinion on things I feel I need to know more about. My potential ignorance can spread.
This has little to do with who is or was in office. Party lines isn't the issue here. It's a humanitarian one.Jun 29 1
- I think it far less a humanitarian issue than a political one. The fact that it is getting such attention under Trump is the evidence for it. There are lots of legit reasons to criticize him. But this one is dubious.
I don’t think it’s fruitful to withhold thoughts until a person feels sufficiently knowledgeable. Humble people would then perhaps never engage an issue to which they might be able to contribute a great deal while those plump with pride, arrogance or even simply equivalent ignorance would propagate equally deficient ideas. That’s not an accusation aimed at you btw. Its just a reason that I disagree with your approach. And I very much appreciate the civility of our discourse.
lkj630 - the use of the term cages is meant to manipulate feelings in a way that jail or holding facility or other terms are meant to avoid those same feelings. I’m fine with your use of it, but I don’t think it’s the best or most accurate depiction of the reality on the ground. But yes I do think there are a ton of legitimate reasons to detain children. Especially for a short term while the fair and legal decision about how to best serve them while not casting aside law I made. Also I think there are several reasons to separate families in such situations. For example, authorities can’t be certain who children belong with if there is no documentation. Can we leave families in tact if there is evidence of abuse? If not, can it be said to be abusive if a child is trekked through a desert without enough water or food? Should we keep a parent who does that with their child? Even if it weren’t malicious, it could be so negligent that we can’t keep them together. Idk. What about space? Should single people be kept in spaces with children? Why would we not separate grown men from children? Should they really be held together in the same space? Or are you saying we owe an apartment or room to every individual family unit? How do we determine if boyfriend x is really dad without documentation?
Honestly I probably sound way more committed to a position on this than I really am. I just don’t think it is simple. An I think trying to reduce it to some simple quippy point or stance is either dishonest or not well considered.
Please forgive me if I have been offensive. That’s not at all my intent.Jul 1 0
- Wayfair workers couldn’t stomach they were making beds to cage children. They asked the company to stop. CEO said no. Tomorrow, they‘re walking out. This is what solidarity looks like – a reminder that everyday people have real power, as long as we’re brave enough to use it
- Oracle / Eng OgasmCan’t imagine ridiculousness. You folks always draw up asinine straw man comparisons for non sense arguments. They break they law they go to detention centers. The White Ukrainian who ran over all those people in NH should be in there too. The racism virtue signaling doesn’t hold water.Jun 26 10
- @9o3htl8O, I can imagine. I can imagine the crisis on our northern border with hordes of “white” illegals crossing the poorly fenced boundary. I can imagine Trump trying to build a barrier to end the crisis, and I can imagine the Democrats refusing to fund “one single dollar.” I can imagine Trump trying to secure funding for better detention centers, and I can imagine the Democrats refusing to vote on the bill. I can imagine WayFair trying to supply beds for our poor detained white folks, and I can imagine liberals walking out in protest of something. It’s not hard for me to imagine. Maybe because I’m hispanic. Or maybe because this is what’s happening and race doesn’t matter.
- New tqjR63Should Crest employees boycott because they’re providing the toothpaste now? Are we really going to make it HARDER for these kids to get beds. This is ridiculous.
- No, they moved from a village in India to a very distant city in India. I am not a US citizen, nor do I feel entitled to be here or get citizenship. Sovereign nations can choose whom to let in. Democratic nations should optimize for the well-being of their citizens. It's pretty straightforward except in the bizarro world that's the west.
- @janitor your grandparents moved due to their situation. You're getting on your high horse because it happened to be in the same country. Even though that country is far larger than Central American countries and has a far wider array of opportunities because of the size and population. I'm not sure what you think you're proving. If people could walk over to one of the other cities in their own country, and continue to live with people who spoke their own languages (did your grandparents speak the same language as their new city?), had the same customs and traditions (same question), and so on, don't you think they would? How bad must the situation be for them to walk 1000s of kms just based on hope?
- For them to gain asylum, they need to be able to prove that there is a legitimate threat of death. (Related, see how laws around material support for terrorist organisations, even under duress, are being used to turn away legitimate refugees - https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-victim-of-terrorism-faces-deportation-for-helping-terrorists )
People aren't even being allowed to get to that point. This isn't a feeling thing, this is about sticking to the agreements signed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees
I'm making no hypothesis on main drivers, I'm saying that putting kids in cages is always wrong, and that given the situation in many Central American countries, these people deserve due process. If found not to meet the requirements, they will be deported. (My thoughts on the legitimacy of economic migration aside - since that seems to be exactly what your grandparents did - thanks for proving my point).
- REI / IT mzNy56moreMore people need to take to the streets. Civil protests are our only current recourse in the face of fascist Republican control and the inaction of Democratic lawmakers.
- @Glassdoor did you really fall for that shit? Look at, like, any reputable study, news source, or independent research and you'll see that narrative falls apart virtually instantly. Hell, even just thinking it through with common sense reveals how stupid that conspiracy is. How many people would you need to illegally vote to make a material difference in elections? A shitload. Tens upon tens of thousands, often in very specific districts, and often those districts *are very small to begin with*. Any fraud operation at that scale would require a huge expenditure of money, time, and personnel - the kind of expenditure you wouldn't be able to keep quiet. There'd be gobs and gobs of evidence if that actually happened, everywhere, every year, and it would be obvious to everyone. The idea that democrats are bussing in illegal aliens to vote for them makes no sense on any level. Even if democrats were going to cheat an election... Why not just stuff the ballot? You know, the thing that has worked since the invention of democracy? And continues to work today?
- Chase / IT OAkz03moreThe voting conspiracy is just.....smh Getting votes isn't the issue for the Dems tho. HRC won the popular vote by 3M and most battleground states (EC votes) are far from the 1 border were trying to secure ( you know bc nobody is asking about building a Canadian wall) ....🙄🙄🙄
- Intuit iyutreare Canadians trying to sneak across the border? that would not be money well spent, they seem to be perfectly content staying in Canada. it's not like there are caravans of refugees coming from the Arctic circle trying to break into Montana.
Popular vote is meaningless unless everyone knows it counts in the election going in. Many people in dominant states on the losing side do not vote because it's not worth the effort. see: conservatives in California.
- Square / Eng SQHot take:
If people want to work for a company that aligns with their personal values then join a non-profit. Don't get butthurt if your for-profit company does things that ... Gasp ... makes profits.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. People are so spoiled nowadays for wanting top pay & ability to shove their political alignment down a company's throat.
- @Akamai You also need to understand the meaning of radical as well. There is nothing radical about caring for other humans. That said, if you think that's radical, call me whatever you want.
Funny, I'm fucking loved where I work. I give a shit about others and make sure everyone is taken care of, valued and grows together. It's nice to be nice. Strange correlation for you, I'm sure, based on the vitriol you bring to this community.
It's always those who hate on others that are the least liked in their community. Sadly, it's a cyclic effect as well. Hopefully, you'll find somewhere you can feel the love that we do.
- Simple solution... fire all the virtue signaling idiots. You’re paid to do a job not virtue signal. Leave your personal shit at the door or leave. Virtue signal on your own time, not company time.
- Microsoft blinkd182Life isn’t about just doing your job. This is being thrown around a lot and I don’t necessarily agree that this is like nazi concentration camps, but people were tried for following orders after wwii even though that was their job. You have every right to protest what your company is doing instead of blindly following what your are told.
Microsoft was also protested against because ICE uses Microsoft software I guess? I myself didn’t, but If people want to protest that, I think they should be allowed to. That’s kinda what makes America a better place than other parts of the world where people are afraid to speak out.
- Uber Architect0Let the companies try to fire people who do this. VmQQ44 you are all talk no brains. Back in the old days they shot strikers. Why are you pitching your idea to protestors? If you were made of real spine you’d be telling the companies to fire protestors. And see how that works out for the company. Come on. Try it.
- It is hilarious that the right can’t argue the actual issues anymore and have to attack the supposed motivations of people who want to do the right thing as “virtue signalling”
Who cares if people want to be seen doing the right thing? What matters is the outcome. I’d rather people try to do the right thing for egoistic reasons than have let the world burn because you don’t want anyone to dare think you want to look virtuous.
- So people who are sad about bad conditions in those ICE camps are complaining about govt buying more beds for those immigrants to make their life a little bearable in those camps? I don’t understand the logic. 🙁
- I never said no one should supply beds. For the third time, please stop putting words in my mouth.
I'm done replying to you. I've stated my stance in clear words, and you don't care to read them and respond in any other manner than strawman fallacies and how you *wish to see me*. 👋
- Microsoft MinkleSo they want kids to sleep on hard floors. That is mighty awful of them
- Seeking asylum because of 'poverty' reflects the seekers inclination to take an easier albeit illegal path to a migrate to a better place where you can live off tax payers money rather than work yourself out of poverty in your own country. That's why I wouldn't club them with those who actually work hard.
- They are literally coming to the US because there are Americans want people they can pay less than minimum wage.
If you want to crack down on people, crack down on the Americans who are creating the demand that incentivizes people in other countries to risk their lives and freedom to get here.
- @Minkel I respectfully disagree with your sentiment. Just because violence has gone down doesn’t mean that individuals are not in precarious and dangerous situations which qualify them for asylum within the USA.
People are dying at the boarder, with the intent of seeking asylum and dying. It’s heartbreaking, a recent example is..
No, I’m not a refugee, but I’ve know several. Legal and illegal and the violence they were escaping is NOTHING I will ever truly understand, but I can empathize with their pain, trama, and desire to seek a new productive life in a safe country where they can contribute and be happy (or at least happier).
- Amazon / Product dchengmoreThe Wayfair walkout is so dumb. Now tons of people won't have beds. Detention centers are there because people are breaking the law to come in to the country. It is not fair us who had to spend years to get here legally to simply let people walk across the border. You know how we end detention centers? Build a wall and make our legal immigration system simpler. Not a Trump supporter but doesn't that seen logical?
- Homesite Group zVDm24Yikes, it's been a while since I've seen so many boot lickers outside of r/the_donald.
- These people fall in the same class as those Liberal, progressive, add any appropriate label here, that wear ski masks while vandalizing property or threatening people trying to silence them for having a different belief or opinion. Ain't going to work. 2016 couldn't be stolen, and this type of nonsense ain't going to fly for too long.
- Sure @ Amazon, who said I was white? Typical liberal BS, resorts to cursing, name calling, and when in doubt name calling. Thank you Mr. Sponsor, or is it he/him? Sponsoring with someone else's money?
Yes, I have looked at the stats and they are all in our Glorious Presidents favor. Sadly the Progressive do what they can to try and block him. No crisis, wait it's a crisis; Collusion, wait none found, and on and on. He didn't need the money coming in as opposed to all the others come in with $100k net worth and leave with millions. Imagine that. Trump can't be bought or manipulated so do what liberals know best - lie, cheat, steal, pull the racist card whenever possible. If the person is of color, resort back to name calling.
@Amazon ask your Uncle Jeff to part with some of his billions for the cause. He'd bounce you out so quick your head will spin. Of course the warehouse workers got a good taste of his generosity on their way to the ER.
Like I said, Stop destroying our Constitutional Republic.
Good night y'all. It was nice chatting with you.
- Trump can’t be bought?!??? Oh sweet Jesus. All of his donors are big, big money who financed the hell out of his campaign and he paid them all back with a fat tax giveaway. Did you fail to connect those dots? Typical conservative hypocrisy. We’re in steady financial spiral with insane hemorrhaging massive debt and you’re still ball-gobbling. Show me the “stats”. Your so-called argument is immature without a single fact that he’s somehow doing a good job.
He knows if even his blind, deaf and dumb followers see his tax returns, the jig is up. He’s a con man who is TERRIBLE at business and money. How many times does he have to declare bankruptcy to convince you sheeple? Has Bill Gates declared bankruptcy, like, ever? Jeff B? Actual good legitimate business men and women don’t lose all their money. He’s a tool and you bought it.
- Amazon / Eng 💩 🚀🛰️@loco Don't you have orders to be packing? Jeff, along with most of Amazon, saw the benefit of those tax cuts you reference. I guess we're all Trump supporters? I'm actually not but I'm happy to be in a good economy again after eight years of recession and painfully slow recovery.
Once again, learn and be curious. Maybe be right once or twice since you can't be right a lot. Trump has never once declared bankruptcy. He has had businesses file for Chapter 11, which a person cannot do. To have lost all of his money, as you claim, it would be covered under Chapter 7 or Chapter 13. As for your question, Jeff almost had to file Chapter 11 for Amazon in 2000 but was able to squeeze by with a $2Bn loan, massive layoffs, and FC closures.
Highschools teach US history, government and economics. How'd you get left out?
- Google s8G1mYSo what's their solution?
Every country and NGO house migrants in temporary shelters. That's not to say that conditions inside couldn't improve but more beds are a step in the right direction.
Caveat: comparing everyone with a different viewpoint to the 3rd Reich is not a solution.
- VMware / Product lRQQ72@indeed, no you could not be further from the truth. We don't h a ve enough housing, otherwise why us there s homeless crisis in every large city? No we don't have enough education resources to meke most of these people useful, we don't have have good enough health care git us citizens... Shall I continue?
- @VMware point to the vast majority of social problems and I'll be able to point to a surplus of supply to solve that problem that simply isn't being utilized efficiently because Capitalism demands that we prioritize profit instead. To take your housing crisis point - there are more empty apartments in NYC being squatted on by billionaires, investment companies, and real estate companies in the city than there are rooms at homeless shelters. We absolutely have a glut of supply, we just lack the political and moral will to use it for those that need it.
- While I agree that capitalism has problems, I have yet to see another viable economic system to arise.
If you take the abolishment of capitalism off the table and still want to have rule of law, how do you propose the problems you outline be solved.
I wonder if maybe some sort of rules about fallow property could be imposed. Perhaps a tax if 1.5 times average rent on every property that has no physical inhabitant for more than 25% of a year? Incentives usually work better than rules.
- @ServiceNow so I should preface this by saying I do think we should abolish Capitalism at some point in the nearish future. However I also recognize that most people don't yet agree, and we need solutions to these problems *now*, not some point in the nebulous future. So working within the confines of the current power structure, yeah, I think significantly increasing taxation on un-or-underutilized residential property would help some. Introducing stronger rent control in urban areas would also help avoid pricing people out of neighborhoods as a result of gentrification. Taking the tax revenue and directing it to more, larger, and higher-quality (as in, better location, more accessible for commutes to jobs, etc) public housing would be good too. Significantly overhauling city zoning laws would be good too, to more efficiently utilize space in areas where it's already at a premium (neither the people of NYC nor its economy need yet another ultra-high-class skyscraper with penthouses for the rich, or another financial tower, but we could definitely use a large apartment complex for underserved communities - and imagine how much money they'd save, and thus pump back into the economy, if they had a commute time on the order of 15-30 minutes instead of 1-1.5 hours).
- The Wayfair executive team had the perfect response to these little fascists. Bottom line - deny beds to children because you are against Trump and our border policies. And then complain that the children are being mistreated. Only the insane American left could twist themselves into a pretzel like this. If they walk out, fire their snowflake butts. Plenty folks would love honest work.
- I don't know that most people scam the system or at least intend to scam the system.
I feel like government run social programs tend to be inherently dehumanizing because that is the nature of large institutions. And once your stuck in that position, you stay there.
I don't know what the answer is. My personal solution is to try to help those I have a personal connection with who are in a difficult situation and recognize that they may fail even with my help.
It's not always easy.
- > yeah, most corporations scam those. But for some reason folks are never as concerned about that.
Personally, I'm more concerned with that. The larger government is, the greater the value in capturing it to serve these ends.
Corporate subsidies and support come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes and are endemic to our system. 🙁
- Amazon thepoor1This thread is an incredible testament to the attitude of the liberal American in 2019. No beds you’re a nazi, beds your a nazi, disagree with me your a nazi. Meanwhile I’ll bet they’re all upper class white folk who never struggled a day in their life but know exactly how to “fix” life for less fortunate individuals.
- First of all, not white here, nor privileged in any typical sense other than with a sound mind - which arguably is the utmost privilege anyone can have. Second of all, you are speaking of black and white, left and right, beds no beds, etc. Dualism. People fighting for humanity typically transcend dualism. It’s not either or for us. It is both. In this particular case the “both” is furnishing these places without making profit, while also shutting down these places in favor of more humane solutions, like temporary foster homes. That’s only a couple of ways to transcend sides. You can actually bring opposing sides together by transcending the paradox.
- Control the border and your jobs and standard of living will not suffer. Or promote open borders and watch what happens....unless, of course, you have no empathy or loyalty to your nation in which case I'd say open up H1B, flood the market and drive down your base income.
- A lot of privileged highly paid future Nazi officers here, juuuuuust doing their job. Trump’s gonna have zero resistance
- Airbnb / Design QUDJ72more60 minute walkout is not a serious protest. It’s a lunchbreak
- HPE Pnmi52“Sorry kiddo, your bed hasn’t arrived. Guess you have to sleep on the floor again.”
Refugee camps aren’t concentration camps. Are you fucking kidding me?
All these people *claim* to be refugees, in fear for their lives back home. Being here in a camp and living in crowded conditions is better than being home and getting killed.
- Despite the right-wing arguments, there's plenty of space in the US for these people. The reason for the camps is because the Trump administration has manufactured a crisis by purposely delaying the processing of asylum cases.
It's not like the situation in Central America is materially different than it was 3 years ago during the Obama administration. We didn't need giant refugee camps then and we don't need them now.
Trump realizes that looking "tough on immigration" is the only way to win in 2020, so he's doing what he thinks makes him look good on TV instead of actually formulating a sensible policy and providing it with proper staffing.
- It is at least partially it. The kind of stupid and terrible shenanigans the CIA participated in propped up some corporations here that probably deserved to fail, but I doubt it's the chief reason for our position in the world.
I agree though that our hands are not clean. I'm in favor of a combined program of encouraging ethical investment in these countries as well as significantly expanding immigration from them for those that choose to go through an immigration process.
I'm not in favor of letting a bunch of people abuse our asylum system for a purpose for which it wasn't intended. Especially since I strongly suspect that many of these people were encouraged by political actors from our country for their own ends, which is really no better than what the CIA was (and probably still is) doing.
- @ServiceNow I mostly agree with you here - the CIA isn't really responsible for our comparative wealth (that'd be the good fortune to have two oceans separating us from the last world War and enough natural resources to entirely dominate the rebuilding effort after it ended), but it *is* a huge part of why South America is in such dire straits right now. Every time we toppled a left-wing government, no matter how corrupt, we invariably put into power a right-wing authoritarian who was even more cruel and wealth-hoarding. Even countries that eventually deposed *those* leaders, like Brazil, are still feeling the effects of us wantonly destroying national sovereignty in order to fight "the commies" (or, as you say, to benefit some corporation or another). Brazil is now led by a moron who has openly stated he wants to go back to "the dictatorship" - his own words - and expresses his desire to exterminate drug dealers and gay folk. That's the kind of thing that we laid the foundation for in the 60s.
I also agree that we should invest in those countries and expand our immigration to help improve the region, not just for moral reasons but because we will directly benefit from that improvement too. While I do support open borders, I also think that it would need to be a gradual process of loosening restrictions - increasing legal immigration is a good way to begin that conversation, I think.
Ultimately the only thing we seem to significantly disagree on is what to do with the people already here/coming here. I don't really view them as abusing our asylum system - I think anyone willing to leave their homeland, their friends, most of their family, their culture, and their language behind to get to a country where they'll have a better chance with literally nothing... Well I think that's pretty much the definition of refugee, at least to me. I'm sure that some number of them are in some way "cheating". Maybe some really don't have it that bad, maybe some could have sought refuge in an intervening country and been alright. But I don't think that's true of the vast majority of them, and I think we should develop our policy in a way that assumes good faith.
- In my opinion, good morals are equivalent to enlightened, long-term self-interest. 🙂
I might be able to see my way to allowing the people we currently have in detention to immigrate en-masse if we can come up with a rational plan for doing so.
One primary constraint I would place on such a plan would that families not be split up. Beyond that, I favor finding communities that want them and split them up in accordance with some sort of assessment of those community's ability to handle the influx.
We, as a nation, have a strong history of being able to assimilate immigrants. Handling the Irish potato famine was stressful, but we did it (even though some of them tried to annex part of Canada). We can do it again.
I find the yelling and screeching about the issue to be the major thing preventing a reasonable conversation about it. I can't talk to someone who calls me a Nazi so they have an excuse to punch me.