Rape and sexual assault are inexcusable. And I'm glad that vile men are being held to account. But I do think it's dangerous to confuse assault with awkward physical interaction and failure to properly read social cues. I read the account by the woman accusing Ansari. She voluntarily hit on him, exchanged flirty text messages, had dinner with him, returned to his apartment, and let him undress her and perform oral sex. The problem was that she didn't want to fuck Ansari that night, but due to her getting physical, Ansari got mixed signals. He thought she didn't want sex at that moment but would warm up eventually. He was awkward and dumb. However, we need to stop treating adult women like helpless babies who can't say no to men and make decisions for themselves. It hurts actual victims and undermines female empowerment.
Who is "we"? Speak for yourself.
Iâm really interested to have a frank discussion with women on this incident. From reading her version and letâs say itâs true. What prevented her from getting up and leaving? To paraphrase one example: âHe pointed my head towards his penis, so I gave him Oral. I really didnt want to....â This is really odd to me. While she didnât like or want it, she didnât get up and leave. Sounds like this was a several hours event where she had time to go to the bathroom and collect her thoughts. P.S. Iâm certain that she was very uncomfortable and feel sorry for her. The above is not meant to doubt her feelings but her actions that led to it.
Everyone needs to stop acting like somehow they have the facts. None of us know what happened exactly. She could be lying or Aziz really did commit assult. Aziz is too famous not to have cameras for security. He should pull up the tapes and clear his name.
There is no such thing as too famous on this (and thatâs good). If he did that for other women, then theyâll come out (as they should). It starts with one brave woman, and other plaintiffs join.
Like I said none of really know. Innocent until proven guilty. I meant someone of his status should have security cameras because you're a target for thieves and such since he is probably pretty wealthy.
You really think that's what title ix has to say about sex after a glass of wine?
I agree that the #MeeToo movement needs to be careful about the high profile accusations they bring. Because it only takes one verifiably false accusation to really discredit the positives from this movement. I donât think this is one of those cases. No means no. Itâs pretty simple. But women also need to be very clear about intentions especially once the clothes start coming off. Being led on to 3rd base and being denied definitely sucks. And blue balls really really hurts. Just take this as a teachable moment for both sexes.
Blue balls hurts for, what, an hour at most? Being coerced into sex that you dont want to have lasts far longer. Don't compare the two.
It says in the article that she did say no multiple times, and had to continue saying no
Yeah more people just have to stand up to this nonsense. It seems like any males gauche attempts at flirting are deemed harrassment.
I will not stand with a deranged rapist! Have some self respect. đ
I have to say he was slightly at fault for not having a direct consent conversation, but she is more so for not making her wants/needs/boundaries clearly known. She goes along with the initial making out and undressing which is implied consent. Up until he mentions a condom she never says anything or gives any indication that he is making her uncomfortable. At that point consent to heavy petting is implied and until she clearly withdraws that consent as opposed to this indirect almost completely passive stuff (t least she mumbled) âMost of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points,â she said. âI stopped moving my lips and turned cold.â He is going to assume the preexisting consent and a likely to interpret any hesitancy with that in mind. Confirmation bias. If he had behaved and some abnormal away in what I understand hook up culture to be like, like if you immediately start pulling your clothes off and forcefully penetrated her, that would be different Her apparent consistent behaviors (taking her hand away from his dick, trying to move away from him) should have clues him in to check in with her, but it really is on her to say SOMETHING. I note when she finally is direct, he is fine with clothing up and watching TV. it was creepy of him to be persistent after that. If he had done something way outside the norm of what I understand hookup culture to be that would be different. Blame all around if her boundaries were broken, but a lot of it lands on her. I am a guy. Good piece the Atlantic on this by a woman. I think the author over generalized but the core message is right. This woman did not empower herself to take care of herself very well. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/01/the-humiliation-of-aziz-ansari/550541/
Ahhhm âI have to say he was slightly at fault for not having a direct consent conversation, ...â nothing more romantic than that in first date. Whatâs next? NDA? Anchor specific actions in a contract (2 orals, 1 boob feeling,...) Thank god Iâm married.
^ many athletes or actors do make women sign consent papers before having sex for this exact reason. Itâs not unrealistic in the current âhe said she saidâ climate. Donât want your career derailed by some ho who consented but had regrets and wanted to fuck you over after the fact. I make my women sign consent papers, too.
I agree, and I agree by the same terms Susan Fowler agrees.
Would be great if some women could chime in. Interested in knowing what they thought about this whole thing and who they think is at fault here.
You can find hundreds of women chiming in on this on twitter
Spoiler alert: mixed responses