I understand that there’s significantly lesser women in tech than men and hence people feel a need to push for it. But why should we have more women in tech? Or any specific group for that matter? I’m not against it, just trying to get a better understanding of the issue. Are there any rational/moral/other reasons to the push?
- Dropbox systestBecause tech has cushy jobs that pay well. Nobody’s pushing for more women in garbage disposal, mining, oil rigs, construction etc
- Is there something wrong with financial independence for women? Let's face it. The jobs that are dominated by women (nursing, teaching, daycare caregivers, admin assistants, etc...) Aren't high paying jobs compared to tech. So yes! There should be a push for more women in high paying jobs.Apr 12 15
- Apple Aa1gle.com/amp/s/kkkk://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/10/business/women-in-company-leadership-tied-to-stronger-profits.amp.html
- The general idea is to have equal number of genders in the workforce. More specifically, equal number of genders in all the occupations. Tech is happen to be one such occupation.
- Mostly because women were pushed out of tech when it started to be a well paid profession. There are no reasons behind gender inequality except for discrimination.
So now the push is meant to restore the fairness.
- @goodforu "There is no such thing as " women being pushed out of tech". "
Are you fucking kidding me?? Women are pushed out of tech before they even become women!!! We have been actively discouraged by society to work in STEM subjects. The best day to be a woman is always tomorrow.
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- Like they now forbid our coworkers to call us b-word and w-word (blind filter those words) and comment our bra size. It’s a huge perk, don’t you understand? Guys don’t have anything like that. Nobody is forcing females around them to stop comparing their intimates. Poor kids...
- Facebook lolwutm8Because if half your users have no representative voice in your company you'll lose to the company that actually knows what they want by employing people that know x or y group from a first hand basis. Tech in particular is focused on because the western world really needs to wake up and push more people to at least try out stem. We don't need more construction workers, electricians, or anything else that'll get replaced by robots anyways so no one focuses on that. Tech will consume or be involved in every possible aspect of people's lives. We don't know what blindspots we have and thinking you can achieve diversity of thought by only hiring x or y group is very naive.
You can either accept diversity leads to better products or that there's a worldwide conspiracy between billionaires and academics to throw away money and make their companies weaker in order to, idk, virtue signal?
- Microsoft FootVotesJust have intelligent human beings in tech, and have a mechanism that mathematically and correctly hires intelligent folks. Don’t give a fuck about gender/race/religion.
Stop using leetcode as the only metric and reintroduce IQ questions.
- Also you can't say your product is for a diverse group of people if there is no one that looks like your target audience developing the product.
1) Not all men have sex, and not all of them use condoms when they have sex, so I guess plumbers are focused on family men with a wife on birth control.
2) still those lines are way shorter because men’s bathrooms have separate areas for urinating and shitting
- Amazon BigglesWomen have different life experiences and concerns. When you’re building a product that people use, having a broad range of people helps you avoid critical mistakes. Your product manager is probably only one gender and race.
I don’t think there’s a unique feminine perspective to database optimization or something, but end user stuff, absolutely.
It also cuts down on the brogrammer culture, and the “I’m awesome because I worked 80 hours this week, and I’m stronger for it” nonsense.
- Actually I find databases that were built by women and code that was written by women to distinctly better than their male counterparts. They are socialized from a very early age to be neat and organized and thorough. I can actually tell (with almost perfect accuracy) if code was written by a male or female, because we have been socialized very differently. Similar to how women, on average, have neater hand writing. They produce cleaner, more efficient work.
- Also, for "majority" of people (men/ women), their occupation is directly relevant to their last school degree in any industry. Males happen to be studying tech in more numbers compared to females. There are cases where degree had no relevance, such people start small and/ or start late into a different career. STEM is a wide category, and tech is a part of this wide category.
- Would you still be asking why if tech was a female dominated industry that you wanted to be a part of and had the skills for yet had to face discrimination trying to get in? Diversity doesn't just mean race, ethnicity, gender, etc. What companies need is diversity in thought. If you have too much of the same thing, there aren't as many new ideas, approaches to problem solving, innovations etc. as there could be if you were to have a more diverse group.
- Women are 46% of labor force in US by official DoL stats. They do a periodic survey and classify where men and women are employed. There is no breakdown by college degree or stem/ humanity fields.
The general observation shows that men form a higher percentage (>75) of high (health and life) risk jobs - chemical handling, trucking, construction etc. Women are a higher percentage in administrative and support desk jobs and jobs that require higher EQ. Most other jobs are quite evenly distributed. Now its not manifest if all the truckers have stem degrees or all the elementary school teachers have PhDs.
Tech being present day white collar job with low lifestyle risk (lower than handling radioactive material) is aspirational.
There are diversity and other considerations.
But there are also 2 fairness reasons given for promoting women in tech:
1. women are a lower percentage part of the workforce in tech than they are part of the college grads in stem
2. There is discrimination in hiring and promotion.
There is not enough data to support above claims nor against it. However its a progressive value to be aspirational of the job of the future. So the idea is motivate more ‘girls who code’ than ‘girls who knit’.
Its okay as long as you don’t have irrational biases in hiring and promotion.
- All “girls who code” initiative are irrational by default. Studies show that men, particularly white men, have a strong pro-female bias in STEM fields; it’s not the opposite way around.
Secondly, diversity for the sake of it is nonsensical. There’s nothing “progressive” about accepting an irrational dogma.Apr 14 1
- A blind recruitment trial to boost gender equality in Australia (the trail removed the names and gender of candidates) actually decreased the amount of women hired, not increased. If the strong pro-female bias in STEM were removed, a lot less women would be hired, not more.Apr 14 2
- Uber kGThK15a female's perspective in general just differs from that of a man, on so many levels based off social conditioning. their perspective challenges me as a man to think differently, hence I tend to grow and learn from those interactions more than with male interactions. making generalizations here but I know I'd want to work with both male and female regardless of industry
- Salesforce notblind42I think the main reason is to encourage women to get out of their ‘traditional’ occupations and to join more attractive industries so that they feel empowered and financially independent.(If you ask why they should be empowered and financially independent, then that’s a different discussion topic.) Of course it is good to have diversity in the workplace but there is no diversity in construction business and no one is trying to promote hiring female construction workers, or car washer or idk any other occupation that isnt necessarily that ‘attractive’. The main goal is to get a group of gender/race/ethnicity out of their comfort zone and to promote them higher up in the society.
- Nokia / Eng yappaaMoney, that's it. It's plain and simple, there are more male students in Computer science than female, which leads to having more men in tech than women. I don't get the idea of reservation or pushing more women into it. The ratio of cs students (based on sex) to people in tech should be the about the same.
- Another important thing is that with current talent shortage in tech there purely not enough white straight men to fill in vacancies. Moreover, if you remove all women we have in tech now there won’t be enough men to replace them with in the States unless you are ok with opening the gate to unlimited immigration.
Also, there are more women students in tech eduction now than it is men. So large companies are preparing for the war for talent in 7-10 years from now when there will be much more women candidates and they will be choosing.
And the last thing is that women are better customers, they spend more and they usually manage family budget, so companies need to understand them in order to customize their products.
- Women are only 18% of CS grads in US.
- Was in 2015.
- Proofpoint / Eng eTCK01Good question. I've done deep research into this when at University and continue updating my understanding in the tech work force but by no means consider myself an expert. Just well informed.
One good way to look at why there's a general push for women in tech is that more smart people working in tech means better tech. Plain and simple.
By this token, tech culture traditionally strives to be inclusive and diverse in order to attract smart people of many different identities and backgrounds.
This is not universally the case.
One obvious discrepancy with how tech culture presents itself is that for some reason(s) there still aren't a lot of women in tech! Many people leave it at this citing women have the same opportunities as men so it's their own fault for not getting into the tech world as developers/engineers/managers/etc. In it and of itself tech companies saying they're inclusive and diverse but not actually being either isn't an actionable problem beyond calling out their diversity stats not aligning with their claim to being an inclusive and diverse community.
So what actually makes this a moral/rational problem with actionable solutions? I won't touch on the differences between how males and females are raised and treated in society because that's a big ol can of turtles all the way down but I'm aware of several cases where some subset of tech community members are essentially ruining the claim to inclusiveness.
We all know it's important to act professional in the work place but some people don't. Yes we are all technically adults and should be able to handle non-PC comments but there is a large volume of completely socially naive people that enter the tech community every year and they are probably the most vulnerable to being offended. There's huge strife within the tech community about whether people should tough out the occasional non-PC comment or whether there should be a no tolerance policy for it. I don't have an answer for this but frankly if you're trying to be inclusive you should not ever defend racism, using the R word, gender discrimination, etc in your workplace. Doing so is anti inclusion and keeps individuals, including women, from pursuing tech. That's one case.
One of the worst cases I can think of is how sexual assault and predators are handled in some tech communities *glaring at the ML academic and Scala communities*. Given the small fraction of women in tech communities it's easy to fall victim to cognitive bias that sexual relations are one off examples with no underlying problem. Consider how many of these community members have been present for years in the community, they recognize all the faces, and immediately notice the new ones. I've heard and read all too often from newcomer and returning women's personal experiences at conferences about men inappropriately touching and speaking to them in public and in private. It's always an older and well established community figure reaching out and manipulating the naive and more vulnerable which I find most disturbing. PLEASE look into sexual assault allegations within the ML academic community. It's atrocious and absolutely not fostering an inclusive community.
Disclaimer, these bad individuals don't fully represent the community but they usually lead priceless research and maintain priceless connections for funding and networking so they can still hurt the community by being ejected for their actions. It's a hard situation for committees and advisory boards to deal with.
In sum, I think the problems that the tech community faces with respect to inclusiveness well define much of why there are less women in tech than men. If we had more inclusive policy and culture I think more women would enter the community. I think above all, more equality in tech is just something a growing community needs to face directly.
PM me or reply for clarification. I quickly hammered out this stream of consciousness.
- Let's start with centuries of "these X jobs are only for men...and these Y jobs are for women" bias against one gender over another has been pushed for ages. Children are conditioned at a young age to only think in binary terms blue is the color for boys and pink is the color for girls. When it come to gender equality and diversity we have to push agendas like Women in Tech.