Anyone ever talk to employer before getting an offer elsewhere?
TLDR @ the bottom, but basically what the title says. Work at a super small biz, vendor at Amazon. Hiring manager at Amazon reached out to me about an open position which I'm interested in. Have done phone screens (no non-compete in place). Looked around and found another similar job at Amazon, had a great coffee chat with separate hiring manager, so am in good standing for 2 open positions and am asked to do onsites for both. Like my current job but ready for something new. Current job also does not have very competitive pay/benefits. Current CEO who is also my manager has repeatedly said/asked if I was thinking of going elsewhere to bring it to him. Have known him for almost a decade from a previous company and have a friendship outside of work; he's a great guy. Don't think there would be any backlash from letting him know I've been recruited and am interviewing, I will probably accept an offer if interviews go well. He's a reasonable guy and purposefully did not put a non-compete in place bc he didn't want to limit our career options and feels that wouldn't be fair. Wondering if anyone has gone the honest route in this situation? If I don't say anything until I have an offer, he would be kinda fucked with Amazon as one of his clients since I manage the account solely. Also, our main client within Amazon has already dropped a hint in an email to him encouraging him to provide more resources from his company to them, they likely won't spill the beans but they're also concerned about the support they receive and if they lose me on several projects, since my role would be with a different team. So I'm already losing the professional courtesy my CEO has asked for, and I can honestly say he has worked to earn that courtesy. I don't feel a counter offer to stay would be something I'm interested in. Feel ready to move on and learn new skills. There's the obvious risk that I don't get an offer from Amazon and have to stay put, but I'm interested in seeing where the opportunity goes and also feel the worst that could happen is my CEO makes me a counter offer to stay and ups my compensation. If he totally cuts me loose (highly unlikely but hey who knows?) I'd be happy to go skiing for a few months and go back to freelance/consulting, which I've done before, and keep applying for jobs. Apologies for the wall of text, have been getting advice from friends and family and still processing how to proceed. Appreciate any advice and insight, and snarky comments as well :) TL;DR: Considering giving my current CEO/manager a heads up I'm interviewing for other jobs because he's a good person and I would fuck him over if I drop 2 week's notice. Want to do the right thing for both myself and him and not be a total corporate dickhead.
You wrote a huge post trying to justify what you know you should not do. Do not disclose anything until you have an offer in hand. 🍆
Word. Why do you always sign things with an eggplant btw?
That’s no eggplant my friend..
If you trust him, talk to him first. Giving him time to figure out the situation before you leave will leave him appreciative. The industry is surprisingly small. Make sure you leave a trail of people who think highly of you and will tell others as such.
Thanks, yeah especially the niche I am in is pretty tiny. You're the only one so far who is encouraging me to be forthcoming.
Don't trust anyone
who hurt you? 😂😭
Get an offer before you do anything. Being friends doesn’t mean you must work against your own interests.
Right, that's what I'm grappling with. I wouldn't want to burn any bridges and would not want to leave him high and dry.
I didn’t tell my best friend (and eventually my best man) when I was working for him until I knew I was leaving. There were no hard feelings. Hopefully your friend can separate the personal from the business. Also, telling them before you even get an offer can put a lot of stress on them to only find out later that you’re staying. If you’re not interested in leveraging to stay with better comp, I wouldn’t say anything yet.
Would he do the same for you? Likely not. It’s just business, man. Treat it as such and leave your perception of other people’s feelings out of it.
I think he would actually. If there were any organizational changes coming that would affect me and my life I'm positive he would let me know. When he set up the company he buffered in 3 months pay for all employees so if things didn't pan out everyone would have 3 months of salary while they found something new.
Well that’s unusual, and unusually awesome. This is an exception—I think you can have the conversation.
It’s a difficult question to answer because everything you get will be subjective based on past experience of the people giving advice. That said, I’ve never worked for a company that earned enough professional courtesy to warn them that I was interviewing or thinking of interviewing elsewhere. It sounds like you have good rapport with your CEO and it ultimately comes down to how you feel about that bond. If you truly like him and the company and want to give him a head’s up, I would suggest having that conversation sooner rather than later. I’m not sure I would tell him the company initially though, just in case he became uncharacteristically vindictive. Counteroffers are always a no-no. Something like 70% of the people that accept them leave within the next year anyway. You’ve indicated that you want growth opportunities so it sounds like it is time to move on. If you approach the conversation gently and let him know you have been contacted for a position in which you have interest, be prepared to explain why you think this would be a good opportunity for you and your future growth. Also be clear that you haven’t interviewed yet but you are interested in exploring the opportunity. Another thing that might help is that Amazon typically is very flexible with start dates. My experience is likely different because I relocated and had to sell a house before I moved, but if you are upfront about needing a month to wrap up at your current company before starting, it should be okay. Even if you decide not to talk with him first, that flexibility can help soften the blow. Optimally you can have the conversation with him to give him a bit of warning, do great in your onsites, and plan a start date that allows you to exit very gracefully and without any bridges burned. Good luck! Advice is easy to come by, choosing the right set is hard :)
Thanks :) this is a very useful reply and more in line with my way of thinking. That's also great to know Amazon is flexible with start dates.
I gave six months notice to a company where I was the only one with any knowledge of systems. Told them get someone in place now so I can train them, help them set up any new programs etc. Three months in they hadn't interviewed anyone. I reminded them of my leave date. With a month to go, they finally got serious but also very picky and wanted to low-ball pay. So their final candidate couldn't start till after my quit date. I gave him my number, offered to consult as needed, and they blew up my phone for months. Calling my new employer directly asking to have days of my time... It was horrible. Never paid for those calls either. We negotiated a rate then they just said they didn't think they should pay me since I "abandoned" them. I worked there fifteen years. Was friends with the VPs and CEO and we golfed and drank together. Now "he fucked us" and I haven't had so much as a single beer with any of them since, even when we're at the same golf outings and such. TL;DR Don't give more than a normal standard notice after accepting an offer.
Damn that sucks! Sorry to hear it I can't imagine something like that going down, but you most likely didn't either. People are weird fuckos.
Fuckos is such a great word mate
Sounds like a good person. I'd be upfront with him. You have a backup plan anyway, and good work relationships are hard to come by. Seems like you'd feel bad to blindside him with the move. Also seems like the transition on both sides would be smoother if there was more advanced notice to your potential offer. Yes. If you don't get the offer then he knows you wanted to move but couldn't. Could you handle that? Is it worse than taking the hard road now with someone you respect?
Exactly....I'm trying to figure out what I feel the most comfortable with. I really need to meditate on, what happens if I speak up now and nothing goes through.
Terrible idea to give him a heads up. Instead, give two months notice when you quit.
I told the recruiter I could start 3 weeks after accepting an offer.
Tell the recruiter you changed your mind. What are they going to do, cancel the whole offer because of a month?