Background ▪️ EE, 8.5yoe, 2.5@Blue ▪️ Level 3 engineer in dead end job, stressed, coasting 0.x engineer ▪️ TC: $165k/year 🥜 ▪️ 50% of Blue Origin monopoly money options vested Interview I applied for a Lead Systems Integration Engineer (lvl4) job in the Space and Launch division of Boeing Defense Space & Security in WA. ▪️ 1st call w/ recruiter was <5 mins long and she said "oh I see the HM already flagged you to move forward, unless you have benefits questions we can end the call early" ▪️ 2nd call, 1h w/ HM and a project chief engineer from Phantom Works goes smoothly with basically zero technical questions. I ask next steps, and the HM says that's it and you'll have an offer next day. ▪️ Get offer next day of $155k/$10k bonus (well below my range) with a 2 day signing window ▪️ I reply back requesting a final call with the HM (that I was expecting) and more time to review the offer. Questions This extremely quick timeline has fucked up ability to get some concurrent offers. I currently make $165k at Blue and if I quit before the next 4 months $21k in 401(k) match gets clawed back. So I can't take the current offer, but I believe the lvl4 lead role (possibly in Phantom Works) is #prestigious ▪️ Is it worth it to move from Blue to Boeing? ▪️ Is this accelerated offer a red flag or a chance to scalp them for salary+bonus+RSUs? ▪️ What is the secret clearance process like? It's my only 'unknown'. ▪️ Is Boeing going to fight back a counter in the $180k-$190K range w/ a $25k bonus(to recoup my 401(k) clawback from Blue)? ***** EDIT ***** Not a role in Phantom Works **** Conclusion ****** I declined the offer because there was no way the money would be better than at Blue plus I wasn't going to take on the risk of moving and dealing with the headache of TS clearance. #offer #interview #boeing #blueorigin #airline #aviation #defense #space #launch #security
For what it’s worth, Boeing has high attrition and losing engineers to blue origin/Amazon because Blue Origin pays more. Good luck negotiating RSUs with Boeing. I do not think that’s a thing. I’m not in BDS, but in BCA so not sure if BDS is different with their offers. Looking at salary tables, $180-190k is on the extreme high end of Boeing. Not many engineers are making that. $165k a year at Blue Origin is already more than majority of engineers are making at Boeing.
Good to know. I really can't go from a level 3 to a level 4, with an equal or lower salary plus take the hit my 401(k) claw back. This role is also a union job with $60/month dues. How does promotions and salary bump for performance reviews work with a union job?
You get compared to everyone else in your team and ranked. Even if you’re worthy of L4, they might not grant it. You have to learn everything that an L1-3 will learn, and that’ll take time because it’s Boeing process specific. It really depends on your manager. I have gotten exceeds expectations for 3 years now and my manager said I can’t go from L2 -> L3 since there’s an L2 with 3 years more experience than me (even though I have a master’s). We should both be promoted, but until he is, I will be stuck.
I was going to start at 190 with the 20k bonus as solid. I would live with working down to $180 but no lower. It's a lot of risk to take a new job and I need to see that modest pay bump from $165. I feel like I have all the leverage if they liked me so much and I'm a perfect fit that they offered after one 45 min call and 15 mins of HR bs.
Secret clearance is pretty benign. no polygraph. They do ask a lot of questions about family history, drug use, international travel, foreign contacts. Be honest and verbose. if there are things you don't know. say so and explain the best you can. Show you have nothing to hide. It will lessen the number of follow on questions. They are mostly looking for things like large financial debt and shady history that can be used as leverage to compromise you. After background investigation is complete your application can be sent to you or destroyed.
I once considered Raytheon RMS in Tuscon and was made aware of the process, ie 10 years of employment/relationship/residence/travel history. The only thing that makes me unease is like if I take the new job and for whatever reason don't get clearance I'm fucked. I don't have any foreign national connections. How do they view extremely extremely rare marijuana use? I smoked in college 10+ years ago, then had an edible for the first time in 10 years earlier this year. I would disclose this obviously.
Lol @blue origin you are fine. Trust me TS/SCI with poly is not that stressful. Polygraph isnt as bad as ppl say
A background check for a SECRET security clearance involves a National Agency Check with Local Agency and Credit Checks (NACLC). NACLC involves checking/reviewing FBI criminal history repository, a credit check, and a check of local law enforcement agencies. If you have some dings in your credit history, all you have to do is explain them. Same if you have any speeding or other tickets. It's pretty easy and nothing like an SSBI for a TS clearance with access to SCI.
"This position requires the ability to obtain a US Security Clearance for which the US Government requires US Citizenship as a condition of employment. An interim and/or final U.S. Top Secret Clearance Post-Start is required."
I’d add that credit, finances or foreign relations are the biggest ones. If you have speeding tickets, criminal record, duis or drug use then you can write off given you don’t get anymore and it’s been a couple years since the last incident.
From personal experience, that should not be a disqualifier. As long as the marijuana use was not while employed and is no longer being consumed in any manner, it should be fine. Be verbose in explaining mitigating circumstances, when, how often and no current usage and that will not be cause for denial.
What do you mean by 'use was not while employed'? Employed at Boeing?
Use was between jobs or while on leave or vacation
Accelerated offer is not a red flag for that industry. They have very few candidates to choose from and don’t want to lose a good one when they see one. If you are worried about the clearance not going through and you are willing to walk away, you can ask them for a contingent offer dependent on the clearance going through. With a contingent offer you’d continue working your current job until the clearance is granted or denied. They may or may not be willing to do that, depends what they have planned for you before your clearance goes through. Salary wise, I don’t know boeing, but L4/lead roles at Lockheed cap at about 215k. Worth mentioning the 401k clawback but I wouldn’t be surprised if they can only give you like 5k.
Not worried, just thinking about 'tail risk', because I don't want to be caught in the lurch. My recruiter called me with the offer and said they would work with onboarding me and doing drug test and some pre-screening and mentioned something about contingencies allowing me to continue to work at Blue while everything goes through. The offer letter says "Your employment offer and/or continued employment is contingent upon approved results or satisfactory completion of the following as determined by The Boeing Company." then lists background check, medical, drug, export etc. Is this what you're talking about?
No, I meant a contingent offer based on the security clearance being granted.
If you want to know what is involved with a Single Scope Background Investigation (SSBI), go check out the Standard Form SF-86. https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf86.pdf If you've never filled one out, you might as well start. Most of the data they want requires you to go back 10 YEARS. It takes time to get this thing done. And, DO NOT LIE on the form. EVER. When it doubt list it on the form and let the investigator sort it out.
"This position requires the ability to obtain a US Security Clearance for which the US Government requires US Citizenship as a condition of employment. An interim and/or final U.S. Top Secret Clearance Post-Start is required." Is this the SSBI?
Getting the clearance in some cases clearnace can take a while (> 6 months ) . Be sure you're mentally prepared for this
Hard no unless you've basically accepted that you're ready to retire
I’m considering moving from Boeing to Blue lol. Boeing had great benefits better than Blue from what i heard on reddit. Salary not so much, i would counter back since they’re desperately to hire talent. Promotion process is tough so i would try to get what you want now vs later. I doubt they can offer 25k bonus but if you can get more pls share
If you want to rest and vest, Boeing is a great place
Especially on the defense side. Have fun not doing shit till you retire
I'm already 'not doing shit'. The Phantom Works guy in the interview said 'this project is one of the most exciting one's I've seen'. I would basically be in on ground floor of this program to design the test system