Today, I had the unique and weird experience of running into a mid-career software engineer at a happy hour event, let's call him Jack. He sought me out in conversation, we had a beer together and I got the impression of an overenthusiastic person with a colorful personality although there were some weird threads. He appeared to be overcompensating with high spirit or otherwise gave away the vibe of being high or medicated. Later, I had another colleague, who appeared to know Jack more closely , express concern to a couple of us who shared workspaces that Jack displayed 4 out of 6 signs of depression. Apparently Jack is being managed out and finding it hard to accept. The other listener who is also familiar with Jack dispelled any concerns of self-harm and assured that Jack will be okay. Retrospecting the events of the day, I am concerned that the alarm raised by the observer may be serious, and that Jack may have been reaching for kindness from strangers like me who he sought out. What can I do to help? Should I notify the employer officially? Should I do this anonymously? What are the implications for Jack as well as for me or others when reporting this? PS: Lost a friend to suicide many years ago who I couldn't help and promised myself that I would do better if the situation presented itself again. TC: 550K Mature responses only please EDIT: - I separated from Amazon on amicable terms a long time ago. Neither I nor Jack or anyone else in this post are currently at Amazon. Once upon a time I used to work for them but didn't care enough to update my Blind profile upon separation. Apologies for accidentally triggering trauma that some of the responders here may have gone through. Also apologies for accidentally propagating a negative stereotype by not being upfront about this. I think that this is a modern workplace situation and not specific to any specific employers. - some of you have misunderstood my intention behind "reporting". My intention is to comply with any policies on the lines of see something, say something and in hopes of positive professional and therapeutic intervention initiated by the employer in reaction to the concern I am voicing. I have no idea if such frameworks exist in today's workplaces but was hoping that someone here would advise how to go about it if they thought help was available.
Afar does managed out mean in this context?
Do you have enough data to conclude that he is being wrongfully managed out ? If yes then you can report on the ethics line with data . If not then you may want to have a continued conversation with Jack along with other people who Jack trusts . The conversation should anchor on that this is not end of the world and something better will come along . Many people who walk away from Amazon do better elsewhere . He can restart his career and reset his life elsewhere
I agree with your take on how Jack should feel. I don't know if Jack being managed out is wrongful or otherwise. The business may be justified in letting him go or they may not, and I have no way to know (Different orgs). I met Jack for the first time today. When parting, he reminded me to send him a LinkedIn invite and I did but I doubt the amount of access or influence I have on this person having met him only for less than an hour. Lastly, while not relevant, I am no longer at Amazon and neither are Jack or any of the others. Haven't updated my Blind profile since I left but I am at a company known not to be toxic and still a good place to work. Wouldn't want to extrapolate general sentiment onto reading Jack's experience but all I am saying is there isn't some pattern of wrongful terminations that I am aware of.
There is nothing you can do for Jack within company. You notify employer - it depends on how they handle it. He is already being managed out, you think your words are going to change the treatment ? Maybe if you are a VP or someone in the chain of command, the least you could do is talk to manager who is going to smooth talk until he leaves. On the outside, you can pursuade him to explore more about life and invest in things like meditation and mindfulness. It all depends on his willingness again.
The company doesn’t care about him but cares about its reputation in case he actually harms himself at this point?
In case he harms himself at this point - the company will protect itself and blame it on a individual. Which company in all these years took the hit and responsbility of any individual ? Its not in their books.
Getting him another job that he can feel passionate about would be the best. People don't get depressed because of being managed out of a job, but rather what it entails financially / socially / professionally.
Yep. And once you are out of the toxic job and into the next and hopefully better one, you are so thankful and happy to be out.
First of all, you are very kind. Assuming so, just find ways to reach out to him. Cut all the craps about “let me know if you need any help” nonsense. Just ask him out for a talk/coffee. Also forget about reporting to his employer, do you think they care?
Thanks. I already reached out to him on slack. I feel that I might have triggered many folks who were kind to consider responding here with my use of the word "reporting". I was hoping to get some intervention from a trained professional employed by the company in reassuring Jack and checking in with him but with empathy based on the concern I am raising. But I have no idea if such people or systems exist within the HR framework we have in our workplaces.
Empathy doesn’t exist at Amazon. Period. Especially anything related to HR whose job is primarily protecting the corporate. Also, if I was Jack, I don’t even want to see/talk to anyone sent from HR, even if it’s a checking in. If that does happen, I would think that’s just for a show. Still, kudos to you who wants to help, especially in the environment where most people,including me, only care about self.
Jack is an adult and deserves to be treated as such. A helping hand from a stranger with no skin in the game can be misconstrued and may lead to harm. Don't jump to conclusions, have more conversations with Jack and tread lightly.
try to be a friend but thats all you should do really
Jack is you, right?
We all appreciate drama like that, but I am neither that creative nor is your crystal ball working. This is a unique experience I'd not have elected to be in, but found myself in quite unexpectedly, and want to do my best for my own reasons..
Amazon doesn't care about depression they cause to folks by Hire to Fire or compulsory 6% pip policy every year , infact Walmart also doesn't care. So you can just help Jack to thake therapy session, improve his skills and apply somewhere else. And also save for future where jack may not be earning for a whilr
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If you really/genuinely want to help, cut that “reporting” crap and be a human first (like wtf do you mean by reporting?) Reach out and just show support (or) be there as a friend and let “Jack” vent his frustrations. You won’t be helping him by notifying his employer or manager.Just be a sounding board man. I’ve lost a friend to suicide too.
I already did that, said it was nice meeting him today and wanted to catch up soon but haven't heard back. At home, my wife and I have been discussing this since I returned home and wanted to find out what more I could do to help. Today is my first day meeting Jack or learning anything about him.
Getting him another job that he can feel passionate about would be the best. People don't get depressed because of being managed out of a job, but rather what it entails financially / socially / professionally.