Company grade level mapping
It would be great to have grade level mapping among companies. Cisco 4 - undergraduate hire 6 - master hire 8 - phd hire 9 - mba hire 10 11 12 13 - director * you can negotiate to get above standard pay grade when you join
at Google, anything below 7 is not management, 7+ is. 8 & 9 are director level, which is pretty exclusive territory and maps to VP at most normal companies. undergrads typically come in at 3-4, masters, MBAs and people with 5ish years experience come in at 4-5. obtaining L6 is still reasonably hard, except in GBO where you can do it solely based on industry experience. lots of low end L3 hired outside of tech doing <$100k menial work.
What's GBO?
global business org. think ad sales.
On the dev side, it seems like college, masters and PhD all come in at L4, but occasionally they'll come in as L5 if they're exceptional. Almost nothing is based on education. It's all about demonstrating your value. Presumably, if a PhD is actually more valuable, they'll move up faster. I could be completely off base here since I'm not exactly a veteran, but that's what I've observed so far.
I'm a Manager, your guess is not too far off.
how is the velocity for product managers in Amazon? I saw a friend of friend, new grad master hire who joined as product manager, now already senior product manger.. isn't there any levels between?
1 - undergrad, 2 - masters/PhD, 3 - PhD/experience of 2 to 6 years, 4 - 6+ years relevant experience, 5 - 8+ years relevant experience, 6 - Senior principal eng / director, 7 - distinguished eng/ VP, 8 - fellow / VP 2
The above post from "hp" is not accurate. IC2: entry level. APM or SWE IC3: some experience. APM II or SWE IC4/M3: PM or Senior SWE IC5/M4: Senior PM or manager; Principal SWE IC6/M5: Director (PM or Eng) or Senior Principal Eng IC7/M6: Sr Dir (PM or Eng) IC8 = VP1 IC9 = VP2 IC9 are called fellow. Not sure about IC8. Yahoo does not use IC1 in product, design, or engineering.
correction : 7 - distinguished eng / senior director, 8 - fellow / VP
You were closer the first time... There are two levels of VP. Not sure if they are both fellow or not.
Continuing on the org chart from above (engineering) 10 - senior engineer (could be an engineering manager at this level) 11 - technical leader 12 - senior tech lead 13 - principal engineer Distinguished engineer (maybe 100) Cisco fellow (less than 20)
MBA higher than PhD? That tells a thing about the culture at Cisco
MBAs (at least good business school MBAs) at Amazon start at L6, while PhDs mostly start from L4. Amazon isn't much different
Omg I didn't know TT
MBA getting hired above PhD seems pretty screwed up. Oh wait, it's Cisco ;).
Funny coming from a MS guy ... Lol
I haven't seen any MBA getting hired above PhD. In fact, there are some teams where MBA would be a turn off for hiring managers. There are few MBAs in VP+ levels but they usually also hold degree CS and decade of experience in engineering. Pure MBAs would probably only find place in PM roles and I highly doubt they will get in senior levels right out of college.
Chill guys! MBAs from schools typically have enough previous work exp. so it does make sense to hire them in that grade. Engineering does not have G9. So G9 from MBA maps to G8 in engineering
Meant MBAs from good schools .. Blind needs an edit post functionality :)
I have an MBA from top 5 and MS in CS from top 7. Still a fucked up L5. Only if degrees mattered. Lol
Pretty standard. I'd say half come in as L4 with those qualifications. You've gotta realize your peers are also from Top X programs. Best way to come in at L6/7+ is via acquisition since that's evidence of actually doing things vs learning them.
Yeah for sure. Many folks stay at 5 and then take a job outside for an L7 role in companies like Salesforce or similar sized firms. Then work for a couple years before they have a shot at coming back potentially as an L7...mostly L6 I would say
Engineering Role at Netflix: No fresh undergrad hire, no fresh master hire, no fresh phd hire, no fresh mba hire. Anyone with experience - Senior Software Engineer
Wow no fresh grad hire?
Looks like you still operate in startup mode then. What is the salary change for a senior software engineer ?