I think this will be a hot debate topic in the near future with growing US-China tension so curious about different perspectives. I have had many Chinese coworkers and friends and I have asked a lot of opinions on this. One thing that surprises me is that most Chinese people who are in the US still try to pursue a Chinese lifestyle - e.g. they treat their traditional culture superior than Western culture, they would like their partners or friends or even their kid’s classmates to be Chinese, they mostly eat Chinese food etc etc. When it comes to reasons that validate their employment in the US, it is not compensation any more, especially in tech or finance or law. An ex Waymo employee can join Didi, an ex Facebook employee can join Tencent, an ex Snap employee can join Tiktok etc. and they can even increase their TC, corresponding to a much higher purchasing power. Thus far, I have heard three valid reasons beyond: i) For females specifically, sexism at work place and social life. Career driven independent Chinese girls feel uncomfortable of the sexist workplace environments and their family pressure to get married and give babies. But I think this is not the concern for the majority of the females. And the females under this category typically prefer White guys to settle down abroad. ii) Work life balance: American companies have less 996 thing, although it is getting more tough and competitive (because of profitability concerns). They can go home and chill after work. At the same time, Chinese companies are getting more Westernized and this difference will likely to get dissappear. iii) Their kid’s education: this is also dissappearing. Middle and high school education in China is getting superior, and an average Chinese kid is getting raised far more educated than an average American kid (e.g. check pisa scores). In bay area bubble, you can send them to fancy private schools, but most Asian parents are feeling more and more dissatisfied anyway. They can simply send their kids to American undergrad and/or grad schools, so that they can absorb Chinese values while getting only the best aspect of the US - higher education. Given all, the trends suggest that more and more Chinese people will return back to China after a few years of employment in the US, unless the above three factors remain big. Do you agree? P.S. I did not add a discussion around the discomfort of authoritarian regime of CPC because most Chinese actually want it, even in the US.
Your points are quite valid. Although for myself only wlb is the real issue. For my kid, I actually prefer to having him educated in China before college (college and grad school education US is still more superior). I will move back to China right now if some company can match my current TC (most likely you will get a pay cut of 50% or so), or FIRE before 40 and move back after earning enough money here
Depends on where in China you go but there is probably a factor of 2 living cost difference with most places. And getting your TC matched is not that hard, have you interviewed with Baidu, Tencent, Bytedance, other AI startups etc., performed well and were not able to get more than half of your current TC?
For google L5 or like you will get leveled at P8 at alibaba, the TC is like 1.5-2M CNY which is 200-300k USD. It used to be that L4 gets P8 and L5 gets P9 but not any more.
I think you get it right. The Chinese culture and its life style are indeed hard to abandon. In fact, through the majority of the history, it's the surrounding civilizations being assimilated into the Chinese circle. Another reason is that the western society never really welcomed Chinese immigrants, even if some of them want to become completely "west."
For me it's the three concurrent holocausts that the Chinese communist party is conducting: 1. Muslim concentration camps 2. Hong Kong 3. Fentanyl smuggling (kills >20000 per year) Some people point out the US prison system and pointless wars, but I would still pick the US over China any day.
token rando snowflake post with no knowledge beyond the venerable truth given by western media headlines
^ you have to back up your 🗣 if you’re going to talk like that
Is that actually true - most Chinese prefer a totalitarian/communist regime? They would not want free elections etc. ?
It's not that simple. I would say most Chinese are not "convinced." India is the worst example: being a democracy does not make it a better place than China. Instead, democracy drags down the country. At a certain point in the future the Chinese may become in favor of a different political system. But at present they are really not motivated to look for a possibly breaking change.
Yea many of us dont give a shit about free election etc. Or democracy. It might result in a disaster and destroy our already good and calm daily life.
Who in the right mind wants to live in a totalitarian regime? You move is tracked and your internet usage is monitored/blocked. Denying this and moving to China is supporting this brutal leadership. Not to mention what they are doing against Muslims and Honk Hong. Also the teaching style is different. In China you learn by memorizing things rather than encouraging free thinking
“brutal” has some negative connotation when describing how the state cares for its people. China has really demonstrated its value if you look at things like: How many rapes-by-somalians have occurred? (0 vs 1000s in US/Euro) How many national monuments have been destroyed by muslims? (0 vs Notre Dame, WTC) How many fights happen on the subways? (0) How many foreigners hold elected office? (0)
You are a racist! By your measure, you might want to add Hitler's value.
Great post OP. For people like me your first point is the main reason why I never like to go back. Having a daughter made me understand that no matter how good I think life is in China it is not more better than the US to raise a child.
"they treat their traditional culture superior than Western culture, they would like their partners or friends or even their kid’s classmates to be Chinese, they mostly eat Chinese food etc etc." I see nothing wrong with this, care to elaborate?
They say America is good because it's a melting pot. That is, as I understand it, everyone ends up being like WASP. You don't want something that never resolves in your melting pot
It isn’t a melting pot anymore. It’s a tossed salad
I don't think Chinese 996 work culture is going to go away any time soon.
Wu maos!
Very good article