Facebook PERM issues
I'm affected by the PERM processing delays for Facebook, and it's putting all personal plans at risk. Not to mention potentially forcing me to change jobs, in the middle of longer term projects that I've worked on for over a year. This is highly unsettling. I want to understand the situation a bit more. Most of the teams I've worked on have been, by an overwhelming majority, comprised of immigrants. My first question is -- what effect does this have on Facebook? Eventually people will start leaving, and new hires will refuse to join (I hope new hires are already cautious with their offers). Does this not provide a large enough monetary incentive for the company to attempt and solve this problem by settling? On the other side, it's really hard for me to believe that the lawsuit itself didn't have ill intent on the other end of some misplaced political favor. What motivates the DOJ to refuse to accept Facebook PERMs even though most employment based immigrants follow a similar procedure? Rather than address the procedure, it seems they are choosing to just pick on Facebook. Unlike previous lawsuits against Facebook, I can't imagine any subset of the American population appeased by this situation. Such hostile situations are created for immigrant workers precisely because of this nonsense from the responsible government bodies, not because Facebook manipulates the system to boost their retention. So what are the incentives here? #workvisa #rfe #h1b #greencard #immigration #perm
A lot of politicians don't like Facebook... Also the sentiment towards silicon valley in general is on a downward trend. Everything is political.
Man you nailed it!
We are in the midst of an "eat the rich" political shitstorm. It's unfortunate.
How long have they been delayed so far?
The longest case I know of was filed in Feb 2020, it got audited three times. So almost 1.5 years. Most people internally have been stuck for more than a year now with multiple audits.
But eventually you are getting perms?
Nothing so far indicates that any PERM applications by Facebook will get accepted. None since Dec 2020 have been accepted, and many since early 2020 have been stuck as well. On the other hand, tons of PERMs from other companies have been accepted (the data regarding this is publically available).
@dLmP28, Could you pls share where that data can be found? TIA
Major part of this whole issue was Facebook was using very generic PERM applications. Yes you cannot make up a tailor made very restrictive position just for the candidate but you need to find the right balance. Pretty much all of FB's SWE applications were generic "some 2yr software dev exp needed" for ads and this attracted plenty of applications from US Citizens but none or most of them were declined just so they can proceed with PERM filing which raised red flags which led authorities to investigate and sue FB.
It's very hard to believe that the DOL saw legitimate issues with Facebook's PERM applications that they did not anticipate from all/most employers' applications for the same. That sounds preposterous to me. A non-generic PERM application is also more likely to face a harder time in adjudication as we can't really expect DOL officials to be experts in the field. Facebook's hiring pipelines are quite restrictive already; and several people stuck in this situation are E6+, which is even harder to get hired for. The legitimate discrimination angle on the whole thing is very naive to be honest. Also using it as a way to put even more pressure on the company by refusing the accept legitimate PERM applications sounds unethical. People are impacted that have nothing to do with the whole matter either way; regardless of who made the mistake.
Yes most employers do the same and it is unfortunate that FB was caught. At this point I would say don't waste your time fighting someone else's battle. No one knows when this will be resolved so you either have to take risk and stick with FB or just interview and move on. Debating about anything else is just a waste of your time and energy.
You can't imagine Americans, who were denied jobs that FB was supposed to advertise to them being appeased? Or Americans, who thought it's illegal to do this shit being appeased? Or Americans, who generally support law and order being appeased? It's quite clear why the FB had been chosen as an example. If it's been some Indian body shop then everyone would think that they are fine, being a rich American company with former government officials sitting on the board and being employed on sinecures, and its own lobbyists etc. When it's the FB that gets a book thrown at it then even Google or Amazon will think twice before trying to pull off the same tricks and smaller shops will be scared straight.
So you think Facebook is not giving jobs to Americans or not trying to find qualified Americans and instead giving these jobs to immigrants? Any theories on why? Is it because Facebook cannot afford to get Americans to take the jobs at the salaries they offer?
They don't give jobs to immigrants either (H1B is not an immigrant visa), immigrants are LPR and naturalized citizens and the issue in the lawsuit is that the government alleges the PERM jobs had been hidden from these.
I am currently interviewing with FB. I have more than 2 years left on my H1B. If my understanding is correct, FB will file for my perm and the application will be stuck indefinitely. Then in 2 years I will need to get another H1B, and if I don't get picked in the lottery this will then end my US career? I don't mind getting my perm later, I am worried that I will lose everything. Is this scenario likely or am I overthinking it?
Why would you go into another lottery if it you already have an h1b. That would be an extension. I am in the same situation
Ah, so the only penalty for joining FB now will be a longer GC wait, but otherwise no additional H1B risk. Thank you!.
A GC unlike your potential earnings at Facebook will not not be affected by future tax increases. Prioritize the GC. Switching to Facebook is not worth the 50k-100k increase in TC over potential delays in GC. Negotiate with Facebook to pay lot more to make it worth while for immigrants.
What's stopping FB from creating/using another company and transfer all those GC candidates to the other company until this issue with DoJ settles ??
I don’t think this is possible, did you see any company doing this ?
Use all the petitions under acquired company name until the company transaction is finalized(or delayed). When vmware acquired Nicira(NSBU), all the people joining the NSBU had their PERMs filed under Nicira for a long time and even for internal transfers HR refiled Perm and i140.
FB has more H1b percentage wise than other big tech. So it’s no question that DOJ would pick FB.
A brief search on the internet reveals this claim to be false, or at least that it's already trending downwards for Facebook. The lawsuit does not impact the large majority of already existing visa holders, but rather those that just joined. Furthermore, it still doesn't make sense. The lawsuit is not constructive at all, other companies won't look at Facebook's example and adjust their PERM filings. Most of the details are not shared anyway. So what's the goal?
Percentage wise FB is still the highest but I am not saying DOJ is doing the right thing. Just DOJ picking the one that they can build a stronger case on.