I’ve a female friend who believes that there’s a gender pay gap and we live in a male dominant society. Her major points being: - Google agreeing to pay $118M to 15,500 women last year over gender discrimination in pay - Most execs and CEOs of top companies are male I think: - Tech doesn’t have a fixed base pay. TC is also depended on the department, role, previous experience, total experience, interview performance, urgency to fulfil the role, and most importantly: negotiation skills. Like, if you have 1YOE at a WITCH, just barely cleared the interview for a non-urgent role, and have no other offers — you lose all negotiating power and will be low-balled. - Most mining workers, cleaning workers, fire department workers, victims of violent crime, people in prison, people on the streets, etc. are also men. She’s taking like 0.0001% of all men to represent the society. I didn’t argue with her at all. Why did Google settle? Does that mean that there’s an objective criteria to paying employees?
I can also point to women who make more than me in the same role SDE2. There’s also women in high positions. This argument is always stupid because it’s all about cherry picking examples.
Your observations are anecdotal.. are you sure you know that the whole population data shows no significant difference between the two groups?
I think there’s a lot of factors. Which gender is attracted to which industry more, who works harder/more and is more likely to be promoted because of their results, who actually provides more value to the company, etc. there’s just sooo many factors that play a part. I can tell you from my experience working at amazon with women at the same level as me and me knowing their salaries that there was never a pay gap if our roles were equivalent and we were the same rating I’ve never experienced it in tech. Maybe in other industries. It might exist but I’m the type of person who doesn’t like to immediately believe cherry-picked data when there’s so many variables that can’t possibly be captured on one graph
In tech the pay gap is also a leveling gap. Biases (sometimes, not always) make it harder for women to gain promotions. So even if equal role / level / experience pays the same, biases can lead to gaps in other areas.
🧠 tell her there is a occupational injury death gap as well. OMG 10x males died! OMG such a male dominant society 🤡 "Number of U.S. occupational injury deaths 2003-2020, by gender. In the United States, there were far more occupational injury deaths among men than women. In 2020, there were 4,377 male occupational injury deaths in the United States, compared to 387 deaths among women."
Google likely settled to score good boy points with lugenpresse media and because they determined likely that it wasn't worth fighting out the lawsuits; many companies do this.
Google won’t even pay for snacks in offices but you think they will settle hundreds of millions of dollar lawsuits just for some “good boy points.”
I agree with LinkedIn. $100mn is change for Google. As of last quarter, they made $100mn revenue in 3 hours.
For white collar workers between 20-30 women actually make more. College enrollment is also slowly becoming 60/40, women/men After 30 my theory is a lot of women step on the brakes to raise kids or have a SO that is a breadwinner and are less worried about promos/climbing the ladder. The only way to stop that is create the shift in societal expectations that women can be breadwinners while men can be stay at home dads. However I think deep down in most women’s minds they either don’t want to be a breadwinner or they want a significant other more successful than themselves because that is what is attractive. Usually when that is the case and kids are involved someone needs to step down from being the career person and in most cases it’s the less successful one.
100% not sure why politicians try to get sexes to resent each other with gender pay gap bullshit
“For white collar workers between 20-30 women actually make more.” What’s your source for this claim?
Ran an entire study on this at university and also taught a class on it. The gender pay gap exists for many reasons: -women choosing to be stay at home mothers -men doing the majority of blue collar jobs -men naturally being drawn to more object based professionals like SWE over people based professions like teacher/healthcare to name a few. The gap definitely exists, but not for the reasons people tend to believe. When you isolate for specifically the same circumstances(education, YOE, career, company) you actually find it still exists normally between 3-6%. There’s much speculation on why there’s still this 3-6% gap, but most economists believe if it can also be attributed factors like willingness to work excess hours, more aggressiveness from men when negotiating/job searching, etc.
Economists believe that women just choose to be paid less and it’s a coincidence women choose poorly paid professions. It’s not that we live in a male-dominated, misogynist society. Healthcare workers deserve by the natural order of the world to make less than the guys who change the CSS code on a website.
There’s a reason you work at Reddit.
It's a fact in the US. Department of Labor March 2023: "Stats. Overall, women are not paid as much as men, even when working full time and year round. On average, women working full time, year round are paid 83.7% of what men are paid. This inequity is even greater for Black and Hispanic women."
This is such a stupid argument. That marginalized stat means nothing. There is no gender gap for the same roles. If females perform the same as males and indeed get paid less, why would companies want to hire males? Nowadays companies even think about firing workers for ChatGPT for higher efficiency
Can you break down how they came up with that. Are they including school teachers and nursing home health aids that screw lower income and primary employee women. If you take 1000 random men and a 1000 random women at a tech company, law firm, consulting firm etc I would bet my first born women make more.
I thing google settled because they don’t want to seem anti women. The gap is the other way. Women make more than men all else equal, it’s all about how the numbers are presented. If you include women that CHOOSE to work part time, you can get it to appear that men make more but it is misleading. Men take massive risks so their are some edge cases of men like Elon and Bezos who oversee insane wealth that may also mislead the numbers. Real gap is how much more Indians make vs every other ethic group including whites. Indians are swimming in 💰💰💰
Indians are a self selected group. The ones in the US are the ones with education to get here and work anywhere from Google to a gas station; those swimming in the Ganges and grinding through poverty aren't represented here.
I’m disagreeing with a lot of comments here but not replying to not stir up an argument, but here, I need to. Recent stats have shown that Indians earn the highest. The metric in itself is innocuous. Unless you try to extrapolate without more details. It’s my understanding (correct me if you find the right metric) that more than 90% of Indians come here to join some engineer school. More than 75% of them join graduate programs and get Masters. CS is one of the top paying jobs out there and it drives up the average income of the ethnic group. This is what the gender pay gap studies are missing. The data collected is either cherry picked, or inherently flawed.
Female already outpaced male in literacy, competency, income(except the high earners) and workforce.
My wife did not negotiate her salary at all while I have continually pushed the envelope in offer negotiation. The pay gap exists and it is largely from cultural expectations of gender. Some of the highest paid people I know are women, but they are also incredibly aggressive about career progression.
For a historical reason, yes. Men's bodies are better equipped for hard labor, while women need to bear children. But advancements in technology & the types of jobs we do have made these differences largely obsolete; there's no reason to believe what worked 5000 years ago is best for today's society.
I'm ready for it to change. Thank you