Saw something for grace hopper and was thinking some of my best bosses and employees have been women. I love them and I see them as equals. Shit many are better than me. But… doesn’t this seem silly to focus on them so much. I mean there are more women graduating from college. More women becoming doctors than men. There are more women nurses, teachers and many other professions. Why do we need to force women into tech? Why dont we have conventions demanding more men are kindergarten teachers?
Thats because men dont care. If you organize a conference, where men would go to talk to other men, no one will care. No man would come.
Men actually do care though. Hence OP's post. Veiled misandry case in point^^
I think this is changing now. It used to be men going to Rotary Club to network but now I could see wellness conferences and retreats like this becoming more popular: https://fortune.com/well/article/founder-toms-shoes-mens-retreat-loneliness-depression/
Because tech pays more than teaching kindergarten. That’s why.
This makes zero sense. If you advocate for fairness only when it's beneficial, you don't actually care about fairness. It's just a cheap facade.
The “fairness” is that women are not encouraged to go into higher paying professions.
Tech pays a whole lot more than teaching kindergarten. If we want a world where women don't require men in order to live good lives, they need to be welcome in all professions. IMO that doesn't mean they need equal representation, they can still choose not to go into tech. Those who do though will need a support system of some sort. It's harder to get ahead when you have no similar role models. Many men who are going to offer mentorship to young women in the field have some ulterior motives. Even if many don't, women are right to he suspicious. Having organizations that support women and help them network seems like a good thing. I don't see the harm in excluding men from teaching kindergarten, and I've known men who were very successful nurses. I don't see men facing similar problems to those faced by women when bucking norms&stereotypes.
Isn’t it hypocritical to advocate for support systems for women in tech due to underrepresentation, and then immediately dismiss the idea of gender inclusivity in fields like kindergarten teaching? You can’t have it both ways—either we fight for gender equality in all professions, or we perpetuate the same discriminatory norms we claim to oppose.
Isn't that the argument I just replied to? There are big societal reasons to care about gender inclusivity in tech, as i explained above. What's the reason to care about gender inclusivity in kindergarten teaching in the same way? They aren't the same. Did you read the response? It feels like you're just restating the op's argument.
I might be inexperienced but who the fuck is stopping them from going into tech. Hell I have friends in Sweden and Nordic countries like Finland, Denmark. Very egalitarian society, yet I don't see many women in tech. They don't seem to complain much about it. When I asked many of them they said I just don't like tech that much, I love management or healthcare etc. Even in my university there were endless programs to support women in tech be it rgsoc , grace hopper , women only hiring (yes this exists and I'm looking at you Adobe and Google) . None of my batchmates ever said that why the Fuck are you in tech etc Watch the video by a female founder on YouTube who called BS on women in tech.
Can you share the video?
Because I think about quitting developer role because I don’t see 50 year old women still coding.
As a woman myself, who works in tech industry but in a non STEM role, I think that both left wing and right wing people are coming at this from the wrong place Women hate being surrounded by creepy weird men. Tech has especially attracted a LOT of creepy men into engineering roles. So it's hard for a woman to want to complete that major in school (because all her classes in Computer Science are filled with them) and then she doesn't want to join a team full of weirdos after graduation. However, I think it's wrong to do any special treatment of women - they shouldn't get extra scholarships, or special GH-style women conferences, or easier hiring into jobs. That's not helping anyone. It just makes men hate women, and it doesn't create strong merit based culture. My recommendations: - All men in tech should have to take a basic speaking class and sign some kind of HR waiver that they agree not to be creepy to women. No ogling, no stalking, no ignoring - they need to be taught to treat women like a male colleague basically. I saw a post here 2 days ago where a guy said it's hard for him not to stare at boobs when he's supposed to be talking with a woman. Wtfffff - Women should be treated the same merit-based as men in tech. Absolutely no lowering the hiring bar. But tech companies should have spaces like a girls-only break room if they need a break from being around guys.
This woman gets it . That's how it should be IMHO. Everyone should be treated equally and get the same opportunity. When you lower the bar for hiring women you are doing more damage imho. How many times I have heard from companies that we want to maintain an equal ratio or at least a 60:40 ratio so they start hiring only because they are women. Isn't that objectifying now ?? Then when they join males are like ah you are a diversity hire probably don't know shit . Things like that I have heard. Again I don't care what you are, you can be a plant but as long as you are a good team player, respectful and somewhat competent I am happy to hire you.
Yeah I feel like it's actually hurt women's reputations a lot to have the diversity quotas, because now men assume we don't know anything. I'm lucky that I'm in an area that has more women generally so it hasn't really affected me but I am friends with a few STEM women and men don't believe they're even capable of anything.
It's not that we are forcing women into tech, we are encouraging them into a profession that has not been friendly for them. Whenever I am in a meeting with peers (designers, PMs), even large ones, there are only one or two women there in a sea of men. I have had to raise my hand in a meeting to point out that woman's raised hand has been up and no one cared to ask them to speak next. Despite more women graduating college, they are not necessarily more employable in tech, their careers don't progress as fast etc. All the professions you mention are not super high paying but are pretty tasking. I am guessing men just don't want those positions. I have not heard of a glass ceiling for male kindergarden teachers.
Not friendly? Women are just less interested in STEM, period. Nobody has rejected them, its all about natural preferences
We need more women in the trades. Especially garbage collectors and plumbers. How come there’s no push for that? Percentages are way worse than in tech.
Tell me where someone put a gun to a woman’s head demanding she join tech. In my past 2 teams, there was just one female engineer. All applicants to our current team right now are male. They are likely to sell themselves short. So we go reach out. In one company, we focused a lot on veterans. In one, we focused on fresh grads. In this one, there is a bit of everything. If you are seeing too much focus on women, may be your company loves PR/ has had multiple discrimination lawsuits and is trying to fix its image. I’ve seen that before.
And whenever these issues are discussed, the verbiage is blatantly misandrist. Like if you swapped the genders, it'd be 1950s misogyny.
Look at VMWare right below me for an example. Did not take long.
To be fair VMWare has username dont_read