Unions are not just about pay. It's about job security, work life balance, and not being treated like expendable code monkeys. The book, The Good Enough Job, has a great chapter on the first tech company union at Kickstarter for those curious on how to form a union. And if you're curious about the pros of a union - this is what union members at my company get (the contract is publically available btw): 1. Advance notice for layoffs: Dow Jones has to give you a 30 day notice before laying you off. If it is due to outsourcing, you get 45 days notice. 2. Severance packages: depends on tenure. Less than 9 months is 3 weeks. 20+ years is 52 weeks of severance. If layoffs are due to outsourcing, you get 4 additional severance weeks. 3. Reassignment options before resorting to layoffs. Relocation package may be offered 4. Training and upskilling opportunities: dow Jones has to teach you how to use new technology in a reasonable timeframe. And if your job is replaced due to automation, you get a training allowance ($3K - $12K depending on tenure) for education and placement assistance It is just basic worker rights. Btw i am not in the union - tech leads and management is excluded - but i support the fight
In Calinforia, it’s already a law that employers gotta give you 60 days notice before mass layoffs…otherwise I agree with this sentiment
Agreed. So there are two options: 1. Regulations 2. If no regulations, unions A company is not on your side. Either the govt helps or you help yourself through a union
I don't care about stability. I want career growth and TC. Unions usually impede that for the top performers.
Fair POV on both points. In my case, I believe I benefit from the existence of a union since some of the things they implement then impact us in a positive way (execs will extend some of the benefits they are convinced of - for instance, union negotiated a 35 hour work week but it was extended to all employees, including non unions). But because i am not in the union, my salary isn't capped or fixed, and career growth is not an issue.
I don’t mind you forming a union or joining one. I’m not joining. Everyone should be free to choose just like as companies should be free to select who to hire / fire. TC: $500K.
Unions serve a great purpose - for certain types of jobs. The top 2% of earners don’t need the same protections, gimme a break. If you want to relax there are plenty of coding jobs where you can do that..
Unions are not for top 2% If you think you are one of them, declare that and opt out of it if you can.
Why do doctors have unions then?
Funny. Everyone here thinks they are a top performer and Unions won't work for them. Layoffs aren't even performance based neither are rewards for performance proportional to hard work.
THANK YOU
Rewards for performance are proportional to performance, not to hard work. That's the point. I would definitely not want to work for a company that values grind over results. I don't care about layoffs, if I get laid off, I can just get another job.
Op is a writer at wsj
I wish. I barely know how to read
(Also the paper is conservative)
Every middleman comes at a cost. With technology we are in the business of eliminating middlemen not introducing them. Companies are able to treat SWEs like expendable code monkeys because they are expendable. A union won’t change that fact. These businesses are trillion $ businesses that are bigger than an individual or a union.
Common misconception. A union can bargain for whatever rights they agree upon. It can still be Pip factory, fire at will, but just with higher severance or whatever
And what’s the incentive for the union to act in employees favor? HOA is along the same lines as an union
These are no different than even AMAZON. WARN already mandates 60 day notice before layoffs, and Amazon usually an additional 1-3 months based on severance.
This is a step in the right direction but it does not tell the exact individual that they will be laid off. Also why are these tech layoffs surprising people if we have WARN? this is something i dont understand. Are there loopholes?
And we’re seeing every day that companies are firing for “performance” as a way to circumvent the WARN act….
Lol. Unions work best for low paid jobs where workers dont have specialized skills. 1- Folks in tech probably have one of the highest job security actually. Its a conventionally high demand low supply market. Look at the price of engineers as proof. Even with the market being tight engineers are finding roles, its not an total shutdown. This is just a bad time- likely a blip long term. 2- Low income workers are more inclined to band together, not high income ones. I dont see engineers making 400k+ going on strike and be willing to stand in the picket line and not get paid for solidarity. 3- if AI is really coming for the code monkeys no union can save you. Salaries are one of the costliest P&L item up there for tech firms. Companies wont sign contracts in short term that will not allow firing with the carrot of 30-40% cost reduction dangling in the near future.
Tell that to commercial pilots and medics.
Apples to oranges. Entry level pilots get peanuts compared to new grad SWEs. Another factor is worker safety which tech doesnt need. Pilot unions were born due to horrible and unsafe flying conditions back in the 30s whose first demand was a safety board, not wages. ALPA’s history is almost exclusively dominated with big safety demands till date. Flying is risky business lol. Its also commonly known attending physicians are barely part of medical unions- they are dominated by low paid, over worked and harassed interns and residents.
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Unions favor protecting trash coworkers and chasing fringe benefits that only help a handful of the workforce over maximizing general TC / benefits. Too many unions have become playgrounds for people who want to play pretend politics instead of doing what's within their scope.
No, it wouldn’t have to be like that. If we start a union it will do whatever we want it to do, as it would be our union. For example it could bargain for more vacation days, or it could help you/represent you if you ever have an issue, say with your manager or HR. Company has HR, we have nothing. A union is just an organization that represents the employees’ interests.
@nordstrom, do you have a union?