MSFT L63 to Google. Am I a fool for staying?
Joined L63 last year. TC $255k. My plan was to hang around MSFT for 3-4yrs, get L64 promo next year. Get more system design experience ( I have less than 1 yoe in leading teams and building systems ). Then flip to Google. I want my TC to hit $350k in 3 years from now. But people on blind say that MSFT senior is only worth Google L4. I get that their TC is comparable $200-300k, but is that the only reason why? MSFT senior takes on average 6 yrs to reach there but 2yrs fresh outta school can promote to Google L4. Also L63 is terminal level, L4 is not. Am I missing something? Am I fool to stay on in MSFT? I'm actually very happy where I am now today. Should I just jump in the next year because I'm going to be downlevel anyway?
Sooner the better if you want to hit 350k in 3 years. Wow you should know that by now post review cycle
I switched from MSFT 64 to GOOG L4 several years back. My TC went from about 220K to about 340K after quite a bit of negotiation w/ multiple counters. I felt I was downleveled a bit, but it turned out to be fine for me (got promoted quickly and have been on good upward trajectory ever since). L4 is the terminal level at GOOG now (you won’t be fired for not reaching L5). GOOG TC is much better than MSFT and MSFT grows slowly & linearly all the way to 65, so there is little to win from staying, if you’re trying to optimize TC. However, your mentioning of terminal level make you sound like you’re looking for a place to chill while getting an awesome TC. To sustain $350K TC at GOOG, you’ll need to work and get promoted to L5. That will take some dedication. It won’t just happen after N years.
I am not at rest and vest mode but don't want Facebook lifestyle. At L64 moving to L4 don't you feel downlevel? From leading teams you are now treated as a kid out of school?
You’re not treated like a kid if you kick ass. In my experience, people at GOOG pay a lot less attention to what your level is than they do at MSFT.
The problem is - Microsoft engineer calibers vary a lot. I've seen absolutely underwhelming L63 and L64s who couldn't hold a candle to L4 at Google. A top performing L64 (160-180 rating guy) could map to L5 but otherwise the engineering rigor and caliber is too sparse at Microsoft. The average Google L4 performs as well as a median L64.
L4 is terminal level
What does terminal level mean?
It means if you are performing at that level and don’t want to advance further, that’s perfectly fine from the company’s perspective. At low enough levels at companies that practice this, you need to get promoted after a certain amount of time or you are asked to leave
64 -> L5 @ Google (http://levels.fyi)
That’s a gross oversimplification. That’s what you can talk a recruiter into, but only a low single digit percentage of candidates get an offer at that level.
Lol 😂 lamron you simpleton
I moved from Microsoft to Google and I must say that people at Google are almost as smart as the top 10% at Microsoft. If you are of the top 10% of senior engineers then yes maybe you will get a senior position at Google. Oh and don’t forget that you probably need to keep working in the same domain to leverage your experience, if you come from security and are targeting a senior position in Cloud Storage teams then you are going to have a very hard time performing well at senior level
YoE?
I’m surprised to know 64 ppl jumps to L4, 2 years at Yelp get top L4. Also I thought Google won’t actually care your level at MSFT, so it’s irrelevant?
Get top L4 at Google? By all means, Microsoft is considered a much better place for engineering talent than Yelp. If someone did get that (btw no concept of a top in a level), it's mostly because they had counter offers. Getting L4 isn't a big deal. L5 changes it entirely.
Yeah, top I mean comp and yes with counters. But that can also be the case for MSFT 64 jumps? Also, don’t want to argue on which is better, but I also think 64 at MSFT should go for L5?
Some points that I think you will find helpful: 1. L63 and L64 both map to L4 in Google. 2. L65 should go as L5. 3. MSFT stock is doing way better than Google stock (obvious). 4. Getting from L4 to L5 could take anywhere from 2-5 years (if ever). 5. The L5 interview is much harder than the L4 interview at Google. 6. Job security is way better at Google than Microsoft. It sounds like you have no bad options here. I would say that your chances of hitting 350k in future would not be with Google, but with another company (esp. FB). Therefore, I can’t make your decision for you, but my recommendation is to go to Google both for the fun, free food, and the resume, but not for the money.
Disagree on everything here except #3 and 4. I am 64 at Msft (promoted late last yr from 63) and got an L5 offer from both Google and Facebook a couple of months ago. Coding is the same for L4 and 5 Google. Only design really decides which level you go as. IMHO if you can do well in that you'll get L5.
@OP if you are good at design you'll be good to interview for L5. Also spending 3yrs at Microsoft is not required for this. You can learn stuff on your own -- just going over the designs videos/courses online wont help. You really need to understand a broad range of the fundamental design concepts . Otherwise, your design interview may not come across as up to standard and you might just get L4.
If you are happy where you are and see the potential to learn at ms, You should stay. You can go to Google any moment. +-2 years is nothing if you don't need this paycheck right now
I made this mistake