Hello! I have two new grad offers I'm trying to decide between, and would greatly appreciate any insight into either program, or opinions on what sounds better: Offer 1: JPMorgan Chase (Software Engineering Program) Chicago, IL TC: 90k base + 10k sign-on + 7.5k performance bonus Offer 2: Wells Fargo (Technology Analyst - Software Engineer) Charlotte, NC TC: 100k base (48.08 hourly, OT eligible) + 10k sign-on + undisclosed performance bonus I've previously interned as a SEP at JPMC, so I'm somewhat familiar with the culture there. Does anyone have insight into the culture at WF, as well as how promotions typically work? I found it odd that the WF offer is hourly -- do people typically still work 40 hours/week? Or are they usually assigned less/more? I'm also curious about what the performance bonus and other benefits typically look like, as my offer letter did not share much info. Finally, any opinions on the Charlotte area in general? I realize it's not probably going to be as exciting as Chicago, but are there still fun things to do? How's the public transit downtown? Thank you all for your help! #jpmc #jpmorganchase #wellsfargo #swe #newgrad #career #tech #offers #jpmorgan #chase #chicago #charlotte
Even with lower pay, I'd take Chicago over Charlotte in a heartbeat. Not even close.
Because of opportunities? Or just the city lifestyle itself? Chicago is indeed very nice.
Both. You're young, don't spend those years in a garbage place. Also, absolutely live in the city. Don't live on the burbs
Chicago over Charlotte for sure. WF will expect pretty much infinite on call from you. There’s less internal mobility than you’d think at WF too.
What is your role?
Infinite on-call even when paid hourly? Seems odd considering they'd be wasting so much on OT; they could save so much just by going salary instead.
I work at Wells now as a NG, I got super lucky to work on a modern stack with a great team. However there’s many NGs that are working on old tech or just working on low code/no code/prod support teams. My friends that ended up JPMC all seem to be happy and coding. Just depends if you want to gamble your team or actually get what you’re promised.
Can I dm?
Yeh
I'm not in Tech but worked at both banks. What I can say is WF pays better but I expect the two to converge on pay down the road. It's more political but also if you do well promote fast- all of which may be appealing starting out when you're willing to put in the effort. JPMC has a much better culture in terms of diversity, role clarity, employee experience, better managers, clear structure, etc. It's a good place to go when money matters less and you're tired of the chaos of WF but the money is hard to leave.
Thanks for the insight. Is it more competitive at WF then? Curious what you mean by more political.
Wells does not pay better, at least in engineering
I started my career at Wells as a Tech Analyst. I would always put in 40 hrs in the clock even if I didn’t do that much work and my manager didn’t care. Do you know which team you will be placed in at Wells? Your experience here will matter widely based on that. Tbh, I would rather take the one with higher pay and lower cost of living. You can always leave after a year, which is what a lot of people I started with did.
Interesting; did you ever find yourself clocking OT? I won't know what team I'm matched with until 2-3 months before my start date. What did the team matching process look like for you?
I rarely enter any OT, but I know some team members who work in the IB side who get crazy OT. As for the year end bonus, normally Tech Analysts are not eligible but that’s also dependent on team so check your contract. They might have changed it though, I’m not sure. I expressed interest in the teams I wanted to be in and they placed me in it so maybe you can try emailing the HR team or hiring managers. I sent them a thank you email after my interview where I expressed my interest. Let me know if you have any other questions
I’m a SEP in Chicago, they bumped everyone’s salary last year by 5k, so you should negotiate and ask them to bump yours too
I was told by both recruiters that the offers were non-negotiable when I first got them. Not sure if it'd be a good idea to try anyways.
I'm surprised that number isn't higher. I'm pretty sure 90k is what SEPs were getting back in 2020 in Chicago (I managed a 2020 SEP)
Also NC is in the middle of nowhere with the only large companies being banks, and Charlotte is so much smaller (imo that was important for me). Chicago at least has Hedge funds, and some nice tech positions, like insurance companies, sales force
Curious since you also said you're a SEP in Chicago -- did you decide to commute in from the burbs, or is it worth forking over the money to live within the city?
I live within the city, I’m a SEP, so no family yet. However, my entire team commutes from the burbs, and that’s like an hour / hour and a half, but we only go in 3 days a week, and on my team in any case, nobody cares when you come in as long as you do, so if you wanna switch a day out nobody will care. I come in closer to noon and leave by 3pm
A few points of perspective having been at jp > 5 years: 1. A lot of senior leadership on the tech side here left for wells in the last two years. May not be up to par yet, but it’s getting much better, fast 2. Chicago for jp has some pockets of CCB (retail, think chase) but is mostly CIB (investment bank). Culture is typically worse in CIB, and I know people who got stuck with production support roles and quit within a year. The misconception is that CIB bonuses are much larger than CCB, but knowing lots of people in both I find that to be mostly untrue and they pay out equal bonuses. The big exception here is if you get on a CIB team supporting the trading desk or another front office application. That does not represent most teams in CIB. 3. As a bank, uncle Jamie is too big to fail. Wells is borderline and has a much unhealthier balance sheet than JP. If it is stability you are looking for, JP is by far the better choice. 4. JP is rolling out a supposed rework of their compensation structure this year called talent 2.0 to align better with tech companies. It will certainly fall short of tech companies, but it could place it far above other banks. Still remains to be seen and will have a better clue around bonus time in January 5. Chicago is the home of HFT (for now at least) and if you are trying to jump to an elite shop for your next opportunity it’s very easy to get recruited being in Chicago. Passing the interviews is an entirely different animal I personally feel as though you can’t go wrong either way, but the most important choice you need to make is choosing your team at either company. If you want a legitimate resume-defining project, a massive data migration from a bank acquisition is a perfect candidate to add. Chances are higher of getting one of those at jp than wells. Really focus on choosing a team that works on high scale systems because that is the most transferable to other companies if that is eventually your goal
Thanks for the thorough insight. I definitely noticed a lot of the points you made about JPMC during my time in Chicago. I was in CIB, and a lot of my older peers seemed overworked. Could've just been my team though. This is the first I've heard about talent 2.0 -- it's good to hear they're at least thinking about restructuring comp. I'm curious -- what's kept you at JPMC for so long?
All the JP -> Wells is because Lori got the top job over Saul. He went to Wells and lots of people have followed, then others followed them and so on. I've also noticed a bunch of UK people going from JP to Barclay's in the last year or two. (I was a long time JP before I fled for greener pastures)
Go for JPMC … Wells Fargo sucks it’s basically a WITCH company
What makes you say that?
I would respectfully disagree with the above comment.
Worked at both. Wells isn’t where you start your career. Public transit is much better in Chicago, but you have it in uptown in Charlotte. CLT is a dynamic city and would also be very fun to work and live. JPMC has a more modern tech stack, a more robust business, and is a top international bank. WF is a top 5 US Bank with an old tech stack, and a more challenging business position. JPMC has a much better track record of training, developing, and promoting early talent. At Wells, there was a whole section of interns this last summer in Chandler who just sat around doing nothing half the summer. We do not have a modern tech stack. Many years later we struggle to operate any of our applications in the public cloud, and our private cloud is 3-5 years behind JPMC. It’ll certainly be more of a challenge and we still do cool things… but it’s not where I would start.
Thanks for the insight! Is there room for mobility at Wells if I find I'm with a bad team? How are promotions assessed/when are they typically done?
Real question.. Did you get the hotdog or the hamburger at the breezeway event today?