PM report to Engineering Manager
I am a PM, reporting to an engineering manager. At first, I did not think it would be an issue. Now after 1 year, it has been really weird dynamic. I have been working with an engineer outside of my team(This person refused to work for my manager before, so stayed at my skip manager’s reporting chain, something I figured out later from other people). Every time I tried to find consensus between manager and my counterpart engineer, it has been a disaster. Later I learned my manager was told to have no ownership of the program I worked for. Now my skip manager(who is also an engineering manager) goes to my counterpart engineer for status update. My manager barely has visibility of my work on this program and barely gave me guidance or can help amplify my work. I feel strong unfair emotion. What should I do? TC: 230k #pm
You're a PM. You're skilled in stakeholder management. Facilitate this dynamic to your benefit. You can do it.
Thanks for the encouragement! It was always not easy to navigate all of these
I've been there before. They might purposely or annoyingly be trying to box you out. And take control of the project. It can be pretty draining. Then you have to make a call with her you figure out a way to write the ship or a band of the ship and leave it to them
Definitely not a good situation and not an easy way to resolve either. I'd still want visibility based on contribution and optics. Your reputation as a PM extends beyond just your manager and skip. Is there any chance you can do presentations / lead meetings with your counterpart eng? Him being the face of the project doesn't mean you're a ghost in this.
The past year I haven been attending standup meeting set up by him, actively contributing as a PM,managing all the backlogs. This year I set up sprint planning and review meetings without being told so. My manager and my skip never gave me support on that. He sometimes tried to host the meeting I set up or not attending. Always feel like a power trip whenever there is visibility.
Yes that's classic politics behavior. That's not good. Time to go
I am a PMM who had a period of time reporting into a Head of Product. It's clear conflict of interest and I believe it is the same for you. Chart out what are your goals and be comfortable with that you have zero support for it. If not best you can do is raise it to Skip.
I am curious how you pivot away from the situation? I am trying to align my priorities to my managers priorities to make my life easier.
Honestly that doesn’t sound as bad as a PM reporting to an SDM. But just curious where do you think a PMM should report? Head of Marketing sounds natural but I’ve had issues with that too (they just want you to make content for campaigns, tradeshows, etc)
Sounds like the toxic workplace Microsoft is known for!
PMs reporting to engineering manager is really wierd, is it common in Microsoft?
I don’t know if it is common in Microsoft. Everyone I talked to find it is really weird.
It's not common at MS. Sorry for that painful situation, OP. On the bright side, this is a great on-the-job skilling opportunity to improve stakeholder management, you will become a better PM as a result
Run, just run. That is a recipe for disaster and you are victim number 1.
I think the skip is reaching out to the engineer is because of 3 reasons 1. Either you are inefficient in articulating what the SDM/skips wants to hear. 2. There is no need for a product manager within the team and a scrum master will suffice. 3. The engineer is a SME who is able to discuss the updates with the skip. Which leads to point 2, i.e you are not needed
Whenever I report on directions, I felt like I am on my own, you know, no one backed me up, only challenges. The second and third point are making sense. It seems scrum master role is enough
This sounds like an Amazon dynamic. As a fellow PM, it’s always hard to gauge where your input is needed. Do they want a technical deep dive for updates or is this high level PM style updates?
High level pm updates. It is always like that.
PMs have no business reporting into engg org. The skills don't match, they can't mentor you.
Yeah that’s what I need. I need guidance and mentorship on my work from a PM manager
Bad situation, but still slavagable I think. Of course, if you can switch teams, it would be much better and easier. Setup a meeting with your skip manager and ask him what you can do better to drive the project. If he's asking for updates, looks like he is interested in it. Explain some of the challenges you have right now and ask if he has any advice or opinions. Don't say it in a way that sounds like you are complaining and can't get along with others. Say it in a way that implies you are treating it as challenge and a growth opportunity. Also setup a meeting with the engineer and ask what work you can offload from him so that he can focus on engineering. Most engineers prefer to focus on the engeering and leave the project management tasks to a PM.
Thank you! I have had sync with my skip and asked what I am being held accountable for. He just said you are the PM.(did not really know what does that mean). My manager told me today that my skip wants my counterpart engineer as the face of the program though my skip is not discounting my contribution. They (my skip and my counterpart engineer) obviously go way back. It would be easier to accept if the counterpart engineer has my respect, but he barely delivered anything. The more I contribute to this program, the more credits he gets. He even use my material to talk to external teams without letting me know. Anyway, office politics sucks and is gross
This situation is rampant in Amazon too. PMs reporting into SDMs. All SDMs care about is delivery . So, unless you want to be a project manager, I suggest getting out asap and promise yourself to never report into a SDM. Such teams don't understand what a product manager is to be used for and will mis-utilize and destroy careers of folks who want move to FAANG to become better product managers. Ask them why do they need a Product Manager in the first place. Usually, the answer is that they need someone to organize the work of the Engg team ....not to decide the direction of the product . It's a horrible situation to be in for any PM. Get out ASAP