Quant at Wells Fargo, or SWE at IBM?
I’m a new grad (Master’s in Computer Science) set to graduate in May. I’ve been having a hard time deciding between the following two opportunities. I’d be really grateful if people could offer any advice and help me make the right career decision before it's too late. 1. Quantitative Analytics Specialist at Wells Fargo - TC: $125k + $12k relocation + yearly bonus (~20%) (Charlotte, NC) 2. Associate Software Engineer at IBM (Consulting/GBS) - TC: $110k + $10k sign-on (NYC) In terms of pay alone, the WF offer is the clear winner, but being a Quant role, would it deter/reduce my chances of eventually transitioning into SWE (hopefully at FAANG)? Is it harder to transition from Quant/DS to FAANG SWE roles? Because I’ve seen many SWE roles needing a minimum 1 year of SWE experience which I obviously won’t get as a Quant. I’ve read way too many horror stories/negative comments about IBM, especially for their consulting department (formerly GBS) - be it the miserly compensation, poor promotion aspects, or little to no growth/learning opportunities. The only reason I’m even considering IBM is since it’s the only SWE offer I have and it’s closer to where I stay (NJ). Is IBM really that bad? Would it be a better stepping stone in opening doors to FAANG compared to WF Quant? Part of me thinks that SWE (IBM) would offer a better head start and career trajectory/growth in the long run even if it means sacrificing a higher paying offer (WF) at the moment. As for WF, am I cutting myself short in terms of learning/growth by going into finance as opposed to a “tech” giant like IBM? If you've been/know someone in a similar situation, which option would you go with? Which place would offer a better start and add more value to my career in the long run? Any inputs would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! #ibm #softwareengineer #tech #wellsfargo #jpmorganchase #bankofamerica #quant #finance #newgrad #career
I can only speak for the finance side aka WF. You’ll have a lower TC trajectory and Wells is held in low esteem in the industry (see: account scandal). I’m not aware of the role but I’d be quite surprised if you’re truly using DS/ML rather than that being used by WF to lure you in. Finance is typically well behind tech, and banks are the slowest to adopt new tech/ideas.
Most prop shops hiring quants with huge $$$$ usually need degrees from premium colleges(maybe it doesn't matter after 5-6 yoe). Consider this when choosing a quant role.
What do you mean premium colleges?
The kinds of MIT/Caltech/ivy/Stanford etc
IBM. All the negatives you mentioned are moot if you jump ship after a year. Like you said, it's easier to find your next role if you have swe experience. Hoping you needed that masters for something? Because it seems like all it did was prevent you from entering the job market a year earlier.
First you need to decide track. SWE or Quant. As a former GBSer. My suggestion is keep LC and interview until you can leave IBM. The business model is that IBM charge client 2-3X than your salary hourly. Your expectations doesn’t meet your salary. Then the project kind of select candidates from a large pool internally. There are so many chances people don’t know how to do their job but being put in that position. Why because the politics are terrible, getting a client means you get revenue and you don’t want people take it over. People with no experience can be put as a lead or PM. With that being said, there some ways they can do when project crash is to find blame goat to cover their ass, making people work more hours without pay or draw a bigger lie to cover previous failure. Software engineer in GBS is a nightmare. Because people over promise when doing BidProposal, some stupid guy can promise doing this for 6 months but actually take 9-10 months. Eventually software engineer executing that plan will have to eat that shit. If you unfortunately work with some guy remote with their kids (this is only my experience) you probably won’t expect him output more 100 lines code within a week. The annual bonus is a joke, I got $200 bonus and 2% raise. Promotions are pretty stable like 2 years. You got to next level. That’s when people start to leave.
Thank you for the insights! Knowing that GBS is a nightmare, don't you think it'll be better to join WF as a Quant, and then switch to SWE down the line by LC? Would it be an easy shift from Quant -> SWE? (I've got my undergrad and grad degrees in CS). Or would you still recommend me to go through the IBM GBS nightmare? What would look better on my resume?
Depend on how long you want to stay. You might be considered as entry level < 2 years if you leave. But I would choose IBM, stay away from politics, find a mentor, use more time to learn, like Agile, design, working tools, best practice. Prepare to leave.
Ex GBS Partner here. Do not under any circumstances pick IBM. I am dead serious. It isn’t a SWE job and GBS has extremely poor reputation in industry.
Yeah, that's what's keeping me away. I thought I could at least show it as an SWE job on my resume (since GBS won't be revealed anywhere). What band is a Partner? Did you move to Google (SWE?) from GBS? What's your say on WF Quant -> FAANG SWE compared to IBM GBS "SWE" -> FAANG SWE? Thanks!
Nobody in GBS is doing software development. I’m not sure what they’re selling you but it’s a bad misrepresentation and it is absolutely not a SWE job. The most technical work done in GBS is Terraform scripting or SAP package configuration. At the very least, you’ll build PowerPoint charts all day. Everyone in industry knows this and your resume will stink of bullshit if you try to spin it any other way. As far as the rest, don’t be lazy. Do some research.
If it's software developer in IBM (which is mostly software services business) vs Quant developer in Wells Fargo (or any bank) , there is no comparison, take the Quant role. Switching to big tech is always a option and when you switch they will ask you in interview what you actually developed, what complex problems you solved etc. IBM ranks in same category as lots of Indian services companies like TCS, Infosys.
What is the visa wells Fargo is asking for new grad? Are you a citizen or immigrant?
It really depends on the job responsiblity. If your QAS job in Wells Fargo is about developing and validating AI/ML models, or building AI/ML infrastructure, it will be a good opportunity. I am seeing many QASs in these area move to FAANG and become ML scientist or ML engineer or research scientist.
This is true... but then I learned during onsite loop with Google and Meta, that I learned nothing staying here over 2 years! So, I am still trying hard to get outta here. Same is true for another guy who just had onsite with Twitch and couldn't make it
I m in the same role, so in short my advice would be to go for IBM
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