Let me know what you guys think if you disagree with the rankings, I'm coming in from the perspective of a new grad. Tier 0: Rentech Tier 0.5: TGS, PDT, Radix, Headlands Tier 1: JS, HRT, CitSec Tier 2: Jump, Cit, OMC, 5 Rings Tier 3: Optiver, Tower, DRW, IMC, DE Shaw Tier 4: 2S, SIG, CTC, Akuna, Flow Edit: For those who feel it's way off, please let me know what you would change. Edit 2: Made some changes and hope this better reflects how firms might stack up against each other for SWEs Unknown*: TGS, PDT, Rentech Tier 0: Radix, Headlands Tier 1: HRT, Jump, CitSec, JS Tier 2: Cit, OMC, 5 Rings Tier 3: Optiver, IMC, DE Shaw, Virtu Tier 4: 2S, Tower, DRW, Akuna, Flow, CTC, SIG Unknown refers to a firm that’s small, well known for Quants, but unsure about how good it is for an SWE there. #tech #quant
I have no idea but curious what ppl in finance think 👀
I am not super plugged into Quant trading but I literally haven't heard about atleast 75% of these companies.
Well they’re small and only hire from select schools
Lol. DESCO Tier 3? Headlands Tier 0.5?
OP seems to have sorted it by new grad offers rather than firm performance.
@CTC I would love to hear your thoughts on what you would change since firm performance is not very transparent and as a new grad, it's hard to get indicators other than from new grad offers
Lol
Would love to hear your opinions :)
1. There is no way to know if rentech is above the 0.5 ones, so I’d put them all at 0 2. I think optiver, tower, and drw are all tier 4 while 2s is tier 3 (maybe optiver at 3 but I heard their pay is only good for quants) 3. You forgot Virtu which is tier 3 imo 4. I would move SIG CTC and flow down to tier 5 Note all these are for swe (not QT/QR)
For swe, jump & hrt are above js. They'll pay more if you're a c++ god, for example. JS better for quants, maybe, but very few people worked at both and know for sure. Citadel can in general overbid almost anyone, but you pay in wlb. Tgs, pdt and rentech are big unknowns esp for swes. Safest swe bet for best return is hrt, jump, cit and maybe pdt because of what they do (stat arb, need to be fast).
Thanks for chiming in 👍
IIRC, PDT is mainly software. If a shop is not using FPGA's, they're not fast. Otherwise, they're a solid shop and have been around pretty long.
No. It is really really really really important to understand that finance is NOT like tech. There isn't some standard leveling game where you compare being an L5 at Google to an E5 at FB to a 64 at MS. Instead, it really really really depends on what you are actually working on. Some additional insight: - Rentech isn't that good for a SWE. IDK why everyone is obsessed. Its godland for a Quant but for SWE it's pretty mid. - Radix, Headlands, HRT are killer for SWE if you are doing root c++ infrastructure. Headlands would be like being thrown into the burning infurno - you either come out a world class engineer or burn out immediately. - PDT, TGS, De Shaw are kind of hit or miss for SWE. Like Rentech they are quant heavy so SWE are often more support staff than anything else. They have some core engineering positions but in general aren't trying to win the "have the best tech" game. - JS is consistently great for SWE. Not the highest paying (a root c++ dev at another shop will make more), but on average pretty close and tends to put tech in line with quant. - Cit, Cit Sec, Jump, 5 Rings are pretty good but nothing special. You'll certainly be happy there but they don't follow the "stay small and keep only exception people". - Optiver, IMC, AKuna, CTC, SIG aren't even worth joining IMO. Just go to tech. - 2 Sigma is probably the most "non finance" place. Also not sure why you would go there instead of big tech.
Great insight. Where do you work btw?
Slight disagree with “- Optiver, IMC, AKuna, CTC, SIG aren't even worth joining IMO. Just go to tech.” It’s worth going to these places if one is a C++ dev looking to learn low latency dev and move to other shops, or even a quant dev. Tech is better if a dev doesn’t fall into either bucket. Also, these are all good places for someone to get their foot in the industry. If someone is solid at say C++ and low latency development, but also may have good knowledge of things like exchange message protocols, or implementing market-making/market-taking execution systems, or developing systems to trade in some asset class; they become more valuable than just some C++ dev at FAANG, who mostly doesn't work with stuff which is common in ultra low-latency systems and definitely does not have experience with building trading systems or market data feed handlers.
Why are blinders obsessed with "tiers"? No one cares about your ranking
I created the list as it was not easy to gather data on several firms since most trading firms are pretty secretive and it's difficult to really say for certain as a new grad, or someone coming into the field without prior experience, how firms stack up against each other from the perspective of comp and growth as a SWE, so someone who might be considering working with several firms could get a data point on their comparison. Of course, I understand comparing firms are difficult since its almost like comparing apples to oranges, and as with any real world question, the most apt answer is always "it depends".
Rentec and PDT are way above the rest
For quanta yes. But these questions are for SWE
Google I'm really curious why you'd think so -- i tried very hard to figure out why pdt & tgs & rentec are so prestigious, but could find no real data just "omg they're so prestigious" fans online. I'm not saying it's false, i just would like to know why it's true.
TwoSig is too low and Virtu should be tier 3. Also I think everything above tier 1 is pure speculation, doubt almost anyone here is plugged in enough to be able to make a fair comparison between those firms and the rest.
Out of curiosity, why is Virtu’s blind rating so bad? Cit is also bad but it’s clear that they’re “high comp, no life”, what’s Virtu’s deal tho?
I think it’s because our TC used to be bad and we laid a ton of people off that we acquired, so they all downrated us. Our Glassdoor reviews show a similar trend. TC is better now and haven’t acquired anyone in a few years so haven’t laid anyone off, rating has been going up. There’s a decent amount of internal dysfunction but I don’t think that really explains the rating being as low as it is personally.
Ahh yes, new grad tier list
What's wrong with that? New grads use blind in our job search too
Didn't say something's wrong These posts keep coming up from time to time and I find them funny