I have an interview coming with ByteDance for a SWE position. I’m currently paid shit at Microsoft and am seriously considering leaving but everyone keeps saying ByteDance culture is “Chinese” and that Western workers have a hard time fitting in. I have absolutely no idea what “Chinese” work culture means. Does it have something to do with the 996 work schedule? Is that a real thing or is this just some Urban myth told to scare westerners away from Chinese companies? TC 160k Yoe 8 #bytedance
996 is a real thing @ ByteDance. It’s not a myth. I wish it was. “Chinese” culture is also a thing. Here’s the culture I’ve noticed working here: 1. You’re expected to constantly be on and work (hence the 996) because you’re not only working with teams here in the US, but also in China. For some, like my team, we mostly work with teams and leaders in China. So, that means many late night meetings. 2. Constant gaslighting. 3. You’re never enough, no matter how much you go above and beyond your scope. You just set a new high bar for yourself and that’s now your norm. 4. Almost everything is in Chinese, including documentation, code reviews, meetings, and even happy hour. Hope you know Chinese! 5. Unprofessionalism and constant gossiping run rampant here. Your manager will talk behind your back and tell other team members or stakeholders about how s/he is not happy with you. Coworkers who find out something juicy about your personal and professional life will spread that like wildfire. 6. Leadership is young and naive and lack a lot of direction. Leadership is nonexistent here. 7. Walking into the office feels like walking into an office in Beijing or Shanghai. Almost 99% of people are Chinese. They ship entire teams from China to the US and many of them are here to replace “American” workers that they deem to be too lazy. Most of these Chinese workers are on L1 visas and will work really hard to keep working in the US because working here, even with 996 culture persisting here, isn’t as bad as working back home in China. 8. This is the only place where I’ve worked (and I’ve worked at many companies before this) where people work themselves till they’re sick and even to death (there were two deaths that happened during my time here). It is also the only company that I’ve worked at where people leave within 1-2 weeks of joining and if that’s not happening, then people who have been here a little longer are taking medical leave. Maybe not all teams are like this @ ByteDance. But, during my time here, I haven’t found a team where this toxic culture doesn’t run rampant. If you are desperate for a job, then it’s not a bad option for a few months. But, most people I know who are here are looking to leave, including myself.
Wow … wow .. okay I’m staying away.
I’d also like to add that even if most of your teams are in the US, we all eventually report up to leadership in China. So, if you don’t speak Chinese, your career growth will only go so far because as you climb up the ladder, you’ll reach a “ceiling” and can’t grow more without being fluent in Chinese. Another thing to note is that things move very quickly here. I don’t mean only in a fb “move fast and break things” kind of way. I mean that leadership and reorgs here happen almost every quarter, if not more often than that. So, your manager or leader might be great and is on top of the world for now, but s/he can also be out the next moment. Managing out happens very frequently. I don’t mean to deter you from applying or to continue on with the process. I wanted to be honest about my own experience as well as others that I know from working here. I wish that others had been as honest with me. My recruiter left within months of me joining, so that tells me a lot.
While the above is true for some, it’s not the case for everyone. It is team and manager dependent just like a lot of other companies. I have a Chinese manager who is receptive to American working culture and therefore have a great WLB and relationship with them. I was almost scared away by people on Blind prior to joining but I’m glad I joined anyway. If you’re unhappy in your current situation, don’t let other people’s experiences scare you away from pursuing new opportunities. Get a feel for your HM / team during the interviews.
It all depends on if your team has a presence in China. If so then the wlb is going to be really bad because you will have late night/early morning meetings. Based on my limited freshman internship experience at Bytedance China, my wlb was great and learned a lot, but I can see FTEs working like crazy (one even was carried to hospital) so the general wlb is not good too. Also, I truly don’t believe you will have career growth if you don’t speak Chinese. I’d advise you to not join unless you confirmed the team is all US + really desperate to leave Microsoft.
It’s basically the same as working at Amazon, except from a satellite location and instead of west coast progressive mental bias there is Chinese bias. Anyways it’s good opportunities here if you have the right team (ability to act without China heavy involvement and manager who understands non China culture) plus the tech is great
It's not real if you don't speak Chinese. I mean if you don't speak Chinese, even 996 won't help you with your performance review. It's better not to try to work hard. If you speak Chinese, then yes it's 996 if you want to get good results from your performance review.
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