Should you ask recruiter for a lower offer
Not asking to downlevel but for less money, because even at the same level, higher TC means higher expectations (in the subconscious mind of your Manager) assuming your Manager can see your pay.
That's not a very smart question especially from someone who is working at JPMorgan
Ummm the fact that you’re asking means that you intend to set the bar low for yourself. That’s a horrible mentality to have when entering a new role. Expectations should always be high.
I agree with what you said but you didn't deny the truth in what I said
He didn’t deny it because it’s too stupid to address. A level carries certain expectations regardless of comp just like a manager carries certain expectations regardless of comp. The negotiation aspect of comp which is usually +/- 15% doesn’t change those expectations in any meaningful way. Your manager makes more than you, he doesn’t give a fuck what you make. Not negotiating just fucks you out of hundreds of thousands of dollars as it not only hurts your pay in the short term but you have less to leverage when searching out competing offers.
I realize it's unconventional but isn't it true that from a managers perspective, if two or your direct reports are at the same level but one has significantly higher pay ( not for past good performance but just due to salary negotiation), he will subconsciously expect more from the higher paid guy won't he
Managers are often involved in the recruiting process. The recruiter would likely tell the manager about the odd request. It wouldn't be so subconscious then, and would likey be a huge red flag.
So you agree that higher pay at same level can be a curse in that it may lead to higher expectations from manager compared to your peers at the same level
Try it and report back
No. Manager would expect d same if you are going at same level. A
True. Level is what matters. Get highest comp possible. You may consider taking lower level though. That's how it is at least in tech. Not sure about these JP Morgan finance stuff.
Its an interesting question. I have kids. I am married. Id like my wife to remember my name and maybe even see them from time to time. So I can understand one possible driver for expectations management, but this really isn’t the way to do it. For me, I am interviewing the company when they are interviewing me. Its done carefully and respectfully. Without arrogance and always phrased about teams and participation. Yet especially the hiring manager interview(s) are a critical window into one of the biggest factors in long term happiness in the role. People often quit managers rather than jobs. If you are trying to manage expectations through the offer though, you both potentially sell yourself short, and the role expectations may be a mismatch anyway. They were set in your interview answers, and possibly in team behavior among existing participants. Ill share one of my favorite “interview the job” questions for other team members: “what do you do for fun at XYZ?” If the got nothing or scramble to come up with something half hearted, it can be an indication of unbalanced intensity or dynamics issues. For the hiring manager, I like to ask “What can you NOT afford to hire in this role, what would make you look back and say I made a mistake?” A right answer would be about team dynamics and culture fit. If they rant about the person not fitting in to a slave culture intensity of work, its a clue to ask other questions. There are some on this board and in real life that will stand in the flames and hold onto the stake while burning to get gaudy numbers. That’s not me. I work hard, but integrated to living. I do not live to work. And not every employer sees their team members through a human lens.
This is great! What would you say if the team says, "we have happy hours and hackathons for fun"? Also, what other questions do you like to ask in job interviews when you're interviewing the Hiring Manager / team?
Id ask about the hackathons - tell me about them, how are the hackathons different than, say, “tuesday”? Passion projects? Id ask when is the last time that you found yourself thinking “whoa” this is cool? I also like asking for multiple views of what you cant afford on the team in the new hire. Gives me a composite view. “What am I doing in the first 90 days that makes me successful vs not?” “Its six months down the road, what things are you looking back at in that first little while that define success?” “Lets talk about priorities, stuff happens, people ask for things, can you tell me about a time this team and my role have had to shift priorities lately? How did we know it was the right thing to do?” “How do we make our stakeholders happy? Have they been happy with a delivery this year? What made the difference?” “A lot of companies have stated values, whats something in the last year that you saw them lived out? Where the team or the company could have done something easier or cheaper but lived the values instead? What was that?”
Never.
Not true in most big companies - the manager may not know your comp and expectations are level based in not salary based
If you feel insecure about the new gig then you should stay where you at.
No