One gender generally earns more than the other. However, it is not for any other the issues in the media. It is simply because one gender is more agreeable and would take what they ask for or are given, if they think it’s good while the other gender is way less agreeable and so are more likely to ask for more than they’re are offered. I know people (both genders) that earn more than me and less than me. Their story is almost always the same. They got offered almost the same baseline as others in their level and with similar YOE - they either didn’t ask for more or they did not ask for as much as the colleague that now earns more than them. It’s not a gender issue. It’s a negotiation issue. Also, the good (and bad) thing about American is that it is extremely capitalist. If companies could get away with paying a particular gender less. As long as they have the relevant skills and experience, they’ll do so to get more profits.
Gender is never a factor when it comes to making comp decisions
Agreed ,comp decisions depends on interview performance and negotiation
You can see the reverse side of this in the medical field. Smart men gravitate towards tech, smart women gravitate towards medicine. My sister’s highly competitive PA graduating class was 94% female, and they are all now making great money
We actually see that specialists that are female dominated have been dropping in salary (in relation to hours worked) such as primary care doctors. This is a fairly typical thing that happens. When a field shifts from male to female dominated, the salary decreases on average. This happened: - Lawyers - Librarians - Secretaries Etc. Even within tech, the early days of computer science had a strong female component, and pay, especially for those specialities, were lower. As men joined the field the pay went up. We also see in countries where women doctors are the vast majority the pay for those physicians is much less than one would expect. A good example of this is Russia.
My point was more about the fact that this extremely exclusive class was 94% female because that is what smart women are interested in. I guarantee any one of those would have been successful in tech if that’s what they wanted to do, and I am certain I would not have been able to secure one of those spots in that college.
“The gender pay gap is real”……”well I don’t know the stats but I think it’s real” Come on
NPR - Young, Single & Childless: Women Who Earn More Than Men https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/09/01/129581758/ Time - 6 Feminist Myths That Will Not Die written by Christina https://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/ "No matter how many times this wage gap claim is decisively refuted by economists, it always comes back. The bottom line: the 23-cent gender pay gap is simply the difference between the average earnings of all men and women working full-time. It does not account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure or hours worked per week. When such relevant factors are considered, the wage gap narrows to the point of vanishing. Wage gap activists say women with identical backgrounds and jobs as men still earn less. But they always fail to take into account critical variables. Activist groups like the National Organization for Women have a fallback position: that women’s education and career choices are not truly free—they are driven by powerful sexist stereotypes. In this view, women’s tendency to retreat from the workplace to raise children or to enter fields like early childhood education and psychology, rather than better paying professions like petroleum engineering, is evidence of continued social coercion. Here is the problem: American women are among the best informed and most self-determining human beings in the world. To say that they are manipulated into their life choices by forces beyond their control is divorced from reality and demeaning, to boot." Fact - 92% of workplace deaths in the United States are men. To make this truly equitable, we would have to increase women's deaths in the workplace by 800%.
Uber study on the Wage Gap https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2018/09/23/gender-paygap-uber-case-study/?sh=176175f1b555 Summary - men are less likely to quit (longer tenure than women as drivers), men are willing to take the shitty routes, men are willing to work shitty hours and more hours, men work more efficiently The Uber App does not discriminate drivers on the basis of gender, but these gender differences in population level data still surfaced
“I don’t know the stats” you immediately discredited your own argument.
Anyone who actually cares about the gender pay gap should support unions: https://blog.dol.gov/2022/02/15/want-equal-pay-get-a-union Yet somehow the same people I hear speak out against gender pay gaps are also against unionizing in tech. It’s almost like the anti union propaganda is working on them. 🤔
I’ve been an Engineering manager for more than 15 years now and in Tech for more than 20 years. I’ve worked at FAANGs , Prop Shops , Banks to Startups which made people millionaires to those who went bankrupt . I’ve never seen anyone offering less pay to one gender or people offering more/less pay because of gender.
And in all those companies, was there always a 50/50 split of Male/female Execs?
Nope but thats what the gender ratio was in engineering . I went to a top 10 School in the US in late 90s . My class had 10:1 ratio , So obviously having 1:1 ratio wont be possible . I review atleast 10 CVs daily and atleast 8 out of them are men , And these are directly picked from the company portals so no screening there. How do you expect 1:1 ratio in this case?
I think “It is simply because one gender is more agreeable” is accurate. Not that everyone woman is agreeable but rather, you find that more woman then men are less likely to aggressively negotiate. People say “comp decisions are not based on gender.” Which may be accurate, but that doesn’t mean it’s not indirectly impacted. I don’t know about you but, I negotiated above the comp originally offered. So it is apparent that comp is directly linked to my willingness to negotiate and corresponding tactics. If there are gender specific tendencies then TC will trend differently as well.
Women also get punished for negotiating when they do.
Punished in what sense?
It's definitely real. In the UK: https://www.womenintech.co.uk/the-gender-pay-gap-in-tech-how-do-we-close-it#:~:text=This%20puts%20the%20tech%20industry's,for%20it%20being%20so%20unbalanced%3F It's also not just because Women tend to negotiate less hard in hire and promotions (although that is a factor) - it's because society is still skewed against women in multiple ways - especially when children are involved.
Why don’t we talk about gender pay gap in Truck Driving ( depends on how many hours you work), working in Gas plants, driving Uber, Nursing, building homes, plumbing? Should not all pay gap be equal? —— It all depends on quality of your work, Not your gender??
Let's talk the mortality gap. Women die on the job only 9% the rate that men do. We need more equity.
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