// Update: I have reached out to another recuriter at AWS and told him that I have an offer, // but I don't like the team. The recruiter was keep asking what's wrong with the team and // I ended up telling him that the "skip" level manager was condescending and humiliating // me and I have zero interest in working for him. // // The recuriter said he will see what he can do, to find the right team. // Hi All: I am currently L63 senior software engineer at Microsoft in Redmond WA, queued for a promo to L64 in the next cycle (probably around Jan 2022). YOE 11 years. Current TC 186K (base+bonus) and have about 130k unvested stocks for the next 5 years. I got a L5 offer from AWS. TC is base 160k and 1st year 100k bonus, 2nd year 80k bonus, RSU is 70 shares which most of will be vested in 3rd and 4th year. So there's no question that TC wise AWS is a way to go. The person, who referred me to the job is one of my ex-managers at Microsoft. And if I accept the position, he will be my skip level manager. And here's my problem. Since the beginning of the process the guy really has been acting as if he's superior to me. For example, 1. when I told him that I got an offer he was like "do you know why you got the job? because me, I was in your interview de-brief. you would've never passed Amazon bar if it wasn't me" 2. when I got confused about the leveling (apparently I am downgrading from Senior to SDE 2 from the title perspective) I asked him if I could be considered for SDE 3 or I can be re-interviewed for SDE3 position, he said "you're never going to pass Amazon L6 bar. you need to work on your communication skills by the way, the way you speak with recruiter is not professional (as if he heard my conversation with the recruiter or something??). try to take some communication courses" 3. when I got a real offer letter in writing, I asked him if I can negotiate the start date because I wanted to have some enough time off between job changes he was again like condescending. "I know you had some timeline for stock vesting in microsoft so I gave you enough time. why do you need more time? and again, work on your communication skill man. if you keep saying like that to recruiter they'll cancel your offer. do you know how many applicants we have? there're so many who want to work for amazon" Given all this, I am already getting some headache. Yes, money seem to be the root of evil in this case. I have interviews scheduled with all FANG except 'N' and definitely want to go one of these but I feel chances are slim. So AMZN is pretty much the only offer I've got now, and as I wrote above the TC is too good to pass. Here's some options I have (or considering): 1. Get another offer from FANG and move on : no doubt, I will if I get. 2. Just do an internal transfer in MSFT and apply for different position at AMZN : I am not sure if I would get another offer if what the guy said is true - I got AMZN offer because of him(otherwise I didn't meet the bar????) 3. Get an offer from smaller non-FAANG company, negotiate with them by leveraging AMZN offer to get good TC 4. Reject the AMZN offer (and report his behavior to AMZN HR), because he is unethical, unprofessional, and somewhat intimidating. 5. Accept the AMZN offer, keep LeetCoding and interviewing, then either move to another team in the 1st year or move out of it to another FANG after the 1 year. Thoughts? (The ex-manager is an indian. and I am a US Citizen for the full disclosure) #Amazon #AMZN #AWS #L5 #L63 #Threatening #Already_Headache_Before_Accepting_Job
Your offer isn’t that great, with the experience you have. Negotiate further or ask for L6. Check levels.fyi for details
Already working with them on it. Thanks :)
Dude I would never join that managers team. Use that offer to negotiate other offers or even ask recruiter if there are other open teams. You already passed for L5 bar so ask what else is open as you rather do xx.
I'd avoid that situation. Make it a poll.
You should avoid that manager’s team. Or you will meet lots of trouble in the future. Try other team or continue interview
Yes like I said, I have so many virtual onsites lined up next week. AMZN offer explodes in 10 days (now 8 days) by the way.
It doesn't explode in 10 days. I turned down an offer 4 months ago and still get recruiters calling me to ask me to accept. Amazon is desperate right now. Ask them do let you do a team match.
Don't join. You will regret even with increased tc. His behavior seems really toxic. Keep trying you can get in some other fang or apply later in Amazon under different org and team.
Yes, he was at least normal (though he didn't show much of empathy to his direct reports) when he was at MSFT. definitely AMZN made him worse.
Your offer is pretty less, L5s are getting 320 these days
Thanks, negotiation is on the way. I'm more concerned about the team and manager besides the TC.
But it is easy to switch after your join, lot of managers are looking for candidates internally
How easy is it? No-interview? Just some introduction then I can switch? What if the manager put me on dev-list or whatever to block me?
I don't think manager would take the risk of putting someone on a dev list within a month. It is pretty easy, talk to the new team, they might want to interview you but it is no where closed to external interview. Usually they can skip it based on your body of work, I have not been interviewed in all my internal moves yet.
Don’t go. Listen to me: you are being hired to be the sacrificial lamb soon, and the story has been seeded already: “I told you that you needed to work on communication skills”. Think: would a manager that really wants to have you as a productive team member be treating you like that?
I agree with you that this might be a trap. He's probably under pressure to meet the 5% PIP bar?
See this; https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/amazons-controversial-hire-to-fire-practice-reveals-a-brutal-truth-about-management.html Your manager will likely have 6-8 direct reports. The 5% comes at the level of this skip already giving you feedback… Moreover, if you refuse this offer then you are a hire in the system as L5. Other recruiters will see this and come after you like flies over candy!
You’ll be his beach
did you mean to say b"i"tch?
Yes