I don't get it. Yes, there are union fees and unions can be inefficient. But it's not like it eats up a big part of our paycheck relative to our pay. It almost feels like the elitism of being a highly paid tech worker, and the way people look down on people who do jobs like working at starbucks, prevents us from even entertaining the idea that a tech workers union can be beneficial. Because lets be real here, big tech is not operating at a loss. Sure, maybe profits go down a bit quarter to quarter, but it means the output of the average tech worker still provides more value than they are paid. These layoffs didn't have to happen and we could be paid more. It's all corporate greed.
bad idea 👎🏽
Sure you wanna be like Europe where devs with 10YOE make 150k and take home less than 50% go ahead. In fact, you should just move to Europe for a few years and let us know what you think.
Is that really why theyre paid less though? seems like a statement that doesn't have a ton of basis. there are plenty of factors that go into market pay. If there are enough engineers overseas which companies can just pay less and outsource, why have offices in the US at all?
I’ll give you an example. You want unions coz they’ll stop the companies from laying off right. In some countries in the EU the severance is at least 1 year, other countries the company negotiates severance with the union first, then negotiates with the individual, then still the individual has the right to “reject” the layoff. The end result is companies have to budget way more for legal issues and don’t invest that much for growth. Quite a few of the best European companies are headquartered in the US like Spotify and Datadog, they’d rather be here and pay higher wages. Why do you think that is?
I think I am unable to follow the logic here. Tech people are high paid employees -> so we need to unionize so we won't get fired? I think I am just too dumb to understand this highly philosophical concept here.
We (on average, not me I work in Alexa xDD) generate more value for these companies than we are paid, despite being high earners. However, we are still working class, it does not make sense that we are so stringently against unionization just because we are relatively well paid compared to people in other industries, because when push comes to shove, these companies will still take advantage of us and discard us for short term profit incentives.
So what would be the advantage of having an union?. Because I think the goals of an union are salary, scheduled work hours, protecting the employees against discrimination etc which I think tech industry already does a decent job at it. I do like the train of thought you are on. Trying to understand better here
There is a need for a collective voice of workers. As AI comes, more international workers or offshoring of work, there is a need. Unions historically have led to blockers ("not my job") mindset, which should not be the goal, but a.union which collectively looks out for white collar workers.
This kid making 300k and asking tech to unionize. Watch their tc go to 100k and crawl back to their parents basement when it actually happens
people keep saying that but is there proof that unions = less pay? I don't follow the logic. tech companies have already been outed once before for suppressing wages, and the push for legislation to stop companies from doing that is ultimately why we have good salaries today. why would having more collective bargaining power suppress wages more, can you explain?
Too lazy to explain and type all that bs. Think what you want to. It’ll bite you in your ass if it actually happens
I agree with your post and I don't see a lot of solid reasoning by ppl who voted no. Some ppl say that salary would become ⅓ rd or worse but I don't see the reason behind such drastic reduction only based on unionization.
Because we have an example of this already -> Europe
It is because companies view unions as a risk. This means companies will have to set aside money to mitigate losses due to union action. This money can be paid to you instead. Why do you think salaries in Europe is so low compared to the US?
amazon did have a loss for 2022 right
nope. just profits decreased relative to previous quarters
ah there was a quarterly loss, still shakes things up
I don't understand why you would ever unionize in this industry? Isn't that for industries where the pay, benefits, and work environment are actually bad? Why would I ever unionize when I make more money than anyone I know and am not in danger during work?
I would have to be convinced that unionizing would lead to a) making more money b) working less hours c) having more stable job Wouldn't getting b and c result in the opposite of a just by the way a market works?
It can always be better. see my point about elitism and that influencing our perspectives. At the end of the day, we are mostly all working class people. Why would having collective bargaining power not lead to better pay, better working hours/benefits, and more stable employment? These companies need workers to make money.
No reason to ruin a good thing with a union
go tell everyone thats been laid off about this "good thing" you speak of.
Being laid off sucks but a union wouldn't save them and make things worse for everyone. Tech is still awesome even of they cut some jobs every decade or so with normal cycles. Those laid off get new jobs l, start companies, or switch sectors which is also good. If you value stability over fun and comp work for the government?
Nothing would ever get done and watch your benefits completely erode.
you work at paypal, its not like you have a ton of benefits to begin with
Tc 500k try again