Why the US has a medieval immigration system

Dec 1, 2018 189 Comments

Let’s face it, US’s immigration system is antiquated shit.

H1B is lottery based due to which lot of employees from body shop companies end up getting visa though they make peanuts, while even FANG engineers don’t get it.

Green card allocation process is even worse, it’s just an old school FIFO scheduler without priority (and with country cap). And there’s this chain migration bullcrap that ends up bringing highly unskilled population to this country who end up driving uber, working at a restaurant.
Those are the people who steal Americans’ jobs in reality (along with indian bodyshop workers).

Look at the immigration system of Canada, Australia and New Zealand. When will we learn from them?

Compared to them we seem to be illiterate in terms of immigration policy.

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TOP 189 Comments
  • Microsoft Jekyll
    I don’t see any problem with the system.
    I arrived here and got a Green Card in 18 months. Me and the family together.
    I love this system and this glorious country.
    Dec 1, 2018 50
    • Facebook Boombox007
      @Amazon I don’t know why are assuming that I want the country cap to be removed so that I can green card. Please point me to the post where I said that.

      I think you are just too biased to realize that. It’s OP who was complaining about that not me. The beef started when a Salesforce guy said “you technically don’t have freedom of speech “.

      I am fine with the current process, if I have to leave if my visa expires, then so be it. I will go stay somewhere else .
      Dec 2, 2018
    • @boombox007 I think you misunderstand the pragmatic point that is being made. You came here because you got a visa. The criteria for getting that visa could have been met by a lot of other people apart from you. You happened to get it.
      So while skill is important there is a fair amount of luck that came into play. Not just in your case. That's simply the reality with skilled migration. Or any migration for that matter.
      But to discount all the parameters that came into play in your being here and just focus on the skilled aspect of it, is to be disingenuous.
      Yes, you could survive any where else, but you don't want to be any where else, you want to be here. Or else you would not have gone through the complex process to be here.
      The premise of the post is that because we are now here, if we are unable to remain it is the fault of the US system. And not only that, the US system is flawed for not enabling us remain here. That is simply not the case.
      Also, no one sees economic refugee as a slur.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Facebook Boombox007
      Well, yes I know I was lucky to get the VISA, but I wouldn’t say so about my job. And that doesn’t mean citizens would use that to look down on me.

      And yes I want to live here as long as I am respected and have a VISA , if everyone started looking down on me like Amazon i will think about moving out.

      Also, immigration is a broad topic, there’s no real right answer. OP posted his opinion, as he thinks it’s “unfair “ to him. I understand he used strong words, but it’s just his opinion. Just like Amazon is putting his. So no point in being so bitter towards him.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Microsoft Jekyll
      I have one question.
      How would Indian politics behave if millions of Americans would be trying to relocate to India?

      Would they open the doors happily? No restrictions?
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Microsoft Jekyll
      The Indians ended birth right citizenship because of that.
      Dec 2, 2018
  • Salesforce gsjshsjsu
    If you don't like the system stay back
    Dec 1, 2018 15
    • Entelo / Eng 3 fiddy
      Thanks, Microsoft!
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Salesforce Nohana4
      How are Facebook employees judging salesforce when Facebook is equally as fucked up and ethically shitty? Hop of that imaginary high horse you are on please.
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Microsoft Hellohalo
      I understand Salesforce guy said in a condescending fashion but generalizing an entire company is as bad or worse. He can say the same way to you that you are a shit because you are from a shit country. Generalization is something racists are good at.
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Facebook Boombox007
      I see, so it’s okay “you technically have no freedom of speech “ to an immigrant.
      But accusing the company of the person who says that is not cool?
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Microsoft r2i
      Alright I just deleted my comment, didn't see Salesforce behaved like a total dbag. Screw this I'm out
      Dec 1, 2018
  • Microsoft r2i
    This is by design, they know exactly what they want and have designed the system to serve their own country.
    Dec 1, 2018 2
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      Of course, the citizens of a country has to always come first even at the expense of non-citizens.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Microsoft r2i
      Yeah I agree. I'm merely pointing it out to OP
      Dec 2, 2018
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      Yeah, I’ve seen posts here in Blind looking for apartment communities that are mostly Indians. That is not a good way to integrate into the American culture quickly if they are looking for an “Indiatown”. We are already seeing this in the SF Bay Area (Fremont, Sunnyvale).
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Oracle Kirby123
      “Immigration creates jobs”
      ^^^
      Just one of those “true for thee but not for me” bs statements.

      If you want to know if something is true, invert the actors in a story and check if it still holds.

      “Immigration to India will create much needed job positions”
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Microsoft Jekyll
      They don’t want to assimilate. They want to take over.
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Oracle Kirby123
      ^^^
      let’s solve world poverty by everyone immigrating and making other countries better
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Credit Karma hkgvj
      I'm Indian and love to integrate with other cultures. I also don't like the way many Indians try to just be in their group of Indians and don't try to mix. I don't see a point in them living here if they don't mix with the culture here.
      Dec 11, 2018
  • Wish / Eng
    kagamoto

    Wish Eng

    PRE
    Amazon, Facebook, Google
    kagamotomore
    You can contact your local senator and voice your concern if you’re a citizen. Otherwise, leave the US and go to countries with a relatively better immigration system. 🤷🏻‍♂️
    Dec 1, 2018 1
    • Lighthouse F26bs7
      Good point. The only factor to consider when moving somewhere is the quality of the immigration system.

      There could be any number of reasons why an individual chooses to move to a particular country, why should that exclude them from critiquing the immigration system?
      Dec 3, 2018
  • Facebook Pork chops
    How is the U.S. immigration system medieval? The Indian outsourcing and desi consulting companies fucked this up and continue to do so.

    Fix that, before you start complaining about the system. We jugaad the shit out of things and blame the system for not working. We fucked this up, plain and simple.
    Dec 1, 2018 2
    • Facebook Buk Lau
      OP
      That’s what I am saying. The system is so freaking old that even Indians have been able to abuse it.
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      You know, “we” doesn’t always mean collective. It can also mean he is referring to just himself and his people.

      Need to brush up on those English and reading comprehension skills?
      Dec 2, 2018
  • New / Eng cato
    Most US policy is medieval
    Dec 1, 2018 2
    • Google / Eng gil
      Oh you think kids should have unrestricted access to alcohol?
      Dec 1, 2018
    • New / Eng cato
      Kids should be allowed to buy alcohol from vending machines, duh 🙄
      Dec 1, 2018
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Google skillet
      I don't have any proposal and my proposals are as useless as the tissue paper you wiped today on your ass. None of what I will propose can happen. The best is to look for what can pass (what's the point in intellectual orgasms on the issue you can never solve?).

      At this point, there is no other bill that takes even a step in the right direction for employment Visa other than 392. There is no possibility of CIR anytime soon (especially given the house with Ds, senate and prez with Rs).

      392 doesn't solve all the problems, but seeing the bill, it's an obvious compromise to not offend anyone and make an immutable characteristic not source of accepting or rejecting an immigrant. If there were more centrists in house and senate, it's quite possible that we could get more bolder and more merit based bills.

      It remains to be seen even if anything will happen next 2 years..
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Hr 392 is worse than what obtains now.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • I'm curious at who crafted the language in hr 392.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Google skillet
      Again, all these intellectual orgasms don't mean anything, since none of these ideas will ever pass. It's easy to come up with smart ideas in 10 minutes. It's a different ballgame to actually get one passed in the Congress. There is a huge disconnect, so people who have been waiting for 15+ years have seen all ideas and know they are useless and are okay with a compromise.

      Also, there is nothing wrong in making a line wait based on when they entered a line. Fifo is how the system should work on an employment visa.

      W.r.t abuse, I am 100% in favor of stopping all abuses. Abuses can't be fixed by laws, they need to be fixed by the administration. In that aspect, I think what this administration is doing the right things (although their context to reign abuse is very different), but I will take that anyday than a lax previous administration, who has made the scope and complexity of problem even larger.

      Also, you will never be able to get any bill to pass that puts any quota - even a profession based quota on h1. The company lobby that gave ac21 life still exists and will do everything to retain it till it's death. I can only wonder how they might have celebrated the ac21 bill passing.

      Also, a big backlog of workers with lower job mobility isn't good for US workers. Decade long backlog has compounding effects It depresses wages and will happen as long as the backlog exists. So much that, consultant companies lobby agains clearing the backlog, which is in the interest of American workers. If you don't believe this - I can quote you numbers on what that rate of depression on wages is today.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • It's very telling that the health care industry, which has jobs that can't easily be outsourced btw, is against this bill when proponents of this bill cite all the Indian doctors that are being hurt by the current system.
      You'd think health care organizations are and such would be behind this.
      Dec 7, 2018
  • Facebook Backdoor
    Wow, so many name calling and heated exchange in this thread. 😂 It’s just blind guys relax @Boombox.

    Btw, I see there have been comments to make immigrants think that they are lucky to get a visa to work here. While that’s not wrong, it’s also technically correct to argue that existing citizens are even luckier to get the best visa without much effort, though you can argue about the contributions of your ancestors, that ‘ll be correct, but they themselves didn’t really do much to achieve it (though there can be rare exceptions.)

    Since everyone’s posting their opinion about immigration reform, here’s my personal opinion:

    Currently, the immigration process serves the interest of existing citizens over the national interest. If you want to serve national interest better, it might be better to cancel birthright/by blood citizenship. Every kid earns his citizenship by making significant contribution to this country and it’s economy. That’ll make sure that the best and the brightest remain in the US, it’ll discard any luck related possibility. Everyone gets a fair shot at being part of the most powerful country. And it’ll be the most “fair” system.

    I know there’s zero chance of it becoming reality with the democratic system we have, but it’s just a thought.

    Comments? Would like to hear from both immigrant and citizen folks.
    Dec 2, 2018 30
    • Being able to do what you love and getting paid well for it is lucky.
      Getting a green card is an added bonus for sure but not having one doesn't put you in golden handcuffs.
      You are as free as a bird if you are in the position you describe
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Facebook Backdoor
      Yes, everyone has his choices and they have the power to make trade offs.

      The Indians are not so much in a lucky situation. The fact that you were able to get green card so easily has made you blind to the fact that not everyone considers it lucky.

      In the other thread, the way you and the other 2 guys have shoved lucky onto the Indian guy is not so cool.

      You know what the best bonus is, getting born in this country so that you’re the boss. So technically citizens are even luckier.

      So from a citizen’s/gc holder’s point of view, an h1b visa holder has a negative lucky index (according to theory of relativity). So it’s a not so fitting thing to refer them as lucky when you yourself are even luckier.

      you don’t go around and shove lucky onto the citizens, do you? So why do that to some h1b holder?
      Dec 2, 2018
    • If the op didn't want a green card then they wouldn't complain about the difficulties in getting one.
      The luck comes in because they want something, applied for it and received it where others failed. Well positioned and lucky. Maybe I should use fortunate instead of lucky, would that sound better to you?
      If you say US citizens are lucky to be born US citizens would you also say Indians are lucky to be born Indians wrt to Bangladeshi's who want to live and work in India?
      I won't comment on the luck of Indians, India has over a billion people. I will comment on those who get frustrated because they are in a backlog and turn around to resent the US for it.
      Being in a backlog is not the whole story, if you are on h1-b and earning a good living then you are in an extremely fortunate position.
      What is so wrong in appreciating that? What does it matter that some have green cards or are citizens and some aren't?
      Or are you just against the message because it comes from a citizen or perceived gc holder vs from a non-immigrant affected by the backlog?
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Facebook Backdoor
      Everyone of us is lucky wrt something. You are the unluckiest when you’re 💀 😂

      But I didn’t like the way it was shoved onto the other guy. It sounded a bit hypocrite that bunch of lucky citizen and gc holders forcing an h1b holder to think that he’s lucky. And it was done in a deregatory way. It almost felt like you are forcing him to give in to you because you guys have better immigration status than him.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • This is the problem, you are looking at the messenger instead of the message.
      This is why I'm talking with respect to facts not emotion.
      You're thinking that because the message is coming from a US citizen or permanent resident, it must be condescending and therefore tainted.
      Why is that? Is it any different than if it were coming from an h1-b holder?
      Dec 2, 2018
  • Google skillet
    Here is why it's still outdated

    To pass a bill that improves - you need all 3 legs agree (house Senate and prez)

    Bills however aren't just decided by all house reps/senators entering hill and reading through every bill and voting.

    Bills instead are usually based on concerned parties agreeing on compromises. For example, in an immigration bill for high skilled, companies lobby, such as chamber of commerce, anti Immigrant and Immigrant groups. Each have extreme positions on the issue and prop up either or both of the parties.

    This is why, large changes are highly unlikely unless either of them are willing to make large compromises.

    For example, while merit based Immigration reforms have been spoken for a long time in press, there are no bills that are written by moderate folks in the hill. This simply tells that merit bills will never pass anytime soon. Sen Perdue and Sen Cotton are fringe (extreme right) whose position is to stop all Immigration. Their bills main purpose is to stop all Immigration. Just writing a bill to reduce Immigration is never going to be acceptable, even to their staffers. So the second best is to serve a bitter pill sugar coated - how? Make up a merit based Immigration and use it as a reason to cut down immigration.

    Since there are so many parties to any Immigration conversation and every one has to come out winning - the political system has good chances of changes only if folks elect more centrists.

    Unfortunately, that's a rare breed of politicians who are going extinct in the trump / ultra liberal left era. 🤦🏽‍♂️

    These wild swings left and right isn't good for the political system and will ensure more deadlocks. (In some sense, the constitution was written that way to prevent take over by any branch, so it's by design).
    Dec 1, 2018 4
    • VMware BobbleHat
      So your saying that the political system that built the country that so many are trying to get into, is inherently bad because it requires a high bar to change laws?
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Google skillet
      You are likely thinking I don't want constitution- unfortunately for your hatred, I am not one. I think whoever it is (without exception), immigrant or citizen need to respect the law of the land - in this case, the US constitution. Laws keep the country sane. If folks don't like the laws, they have two ways, either leave the country or fix the laws. There is only one way to fix it - change them via a bill (that becomes law after passing).

      (Oh and BTW, pointing out merits and demerits doesn't mean someone doesn't want to follow the laws of the land).

      Constitution was designed in such a way that - based on constraints at the time of it writing - it makes it hard to make progress unless all parties to the change agree on the change and not a single group can ram their way through. The separation of powers ensures that no single entity in the system can run the system to ground and the counter to that is it also makes it very hard to make drastic (positive) changes to the system - often only incremental changes.

      Think of it like a consensus system rather than just winner takes all.

      For such a set up, more moderates make the system efficient, since there are greater chances of compromises. Folks who are anchored with extreme positions are less willing to compromise than folks who are moderate.
      Dec 1, 2018
    • New / Eng ////
      ^ very well written.
      Folks coming from other countries have not experienced the law and constitution and think those were created to hurt human beings, that's understandable.
      What I would like to see is more parties, liberals and rights are not making a progress.
      Dec 1, 2018
    • Google skillet
      The elites are such a small minority they won't matter to anything.

      Majority of Americans want to give some reprieve for DACA kids. Even that isn't happening. Dems will pass a bunch of house bills for DACA next session, but will never pass senate. Only if the president gets something in return, will something happen (or likely scenario is that supreme Court forces the administration to do something).

      Also, even among the elites you are pointing out, majority are Dems. Only the vocal minority among them are those you see on blind. Most do support DACA kids.

      DACA should have been a no-brainer (the jury is still out on their parents though), but the separation of powers will make it mostly impossible unless folks compromise on both sides.
      Dec 1, 2018

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