Folks in engineering, As you might be aware, some companies have started dishing out hackerrank-style coding websites as the first round of screening, even for experienced candidates. There are 2 reasons they do this: 1. This lets recruiters/companies be lazy and not read/verify candidate resume 2. This lets recruiters/companies scale out and interview a thousand candidates for one position. What does this mean for you experienced engineers in companies? 1. Your current experience counts for zilch 2. You will be pitted against a compiler and a test suite that is extremely strict and docks points if you submit and fail tests. How often do you write flawless production code in the real world without running it through test suites? Never! 3. You, experienced engineers, will have to compete against stupid kids who don't know ABC of real engineering but have been practicing this style of programming for a while. You are more valuable than those kids There are no pros to this style of interview for us. Even if you are a fucking genius, statistical odds are against you. And you will lose this interview right when you are not at your best and you need a job (layoffs, health issues etc) So what do you do when a company asks for such an interview process? 1. Say "No, I'd like to talk to a real engineer" 2. Suggest alternatives like google docs or coderpad while talking on the phone with an engineer or hiring manager 3. A simple take home assignment with no deadline because you are a working professional and your time is valuable. Why do you need to do this now? Because if you show apathy to this process right now, it WILL become the norm in 3-4 years in a market flooded with desperate boot camp and college coders and these companies don't want to spend time reading YOUR resume. If we don't act now, this WILL become the norm just like leetcode style competitive coding has become one, in the last 3-4 years. Do not be suckers! Know your fucking worth engineers! You are the most valuable people of tech product companies. Learn to say no to the MBAs setting these scalable policies and raking in the profits. Learn to say no to recruiters who just want to cast a wide net hoping to hire a few and make their bonuses.
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what are you talking about? the online screens are simple. if you fail them then you would have also failed the phone screen. it also removes some bias from the top of the funnel and how is a take home assignment better? the hackerrank tests can be taken at any time. the time limit reduces bias towards people who can spend all day working on it unlike people who have jobs and other responsibilities.
The problem with online screenings is that you are competing against a 1000 others. With those many people involved, you can be 95% accurate in your code and still not be called for further interviews...simply because statistically, some of the 1000 candidates will get more than 95% accuracy. You could be a great engineer who did amazing things at airbnb. But you'd lose out to a candidate who might suck at real engineering but lucked out in that hackerrank test. At scale, automated test is more about luck than skill
you seem to be ignoring all the bias and inaccurate results of phone screens. at least hackerrank is merit based. they are easy questions, if you struggle then you wouldn't pass the phone screen anyways.
I think online screening is a good method. helps ensure a candidate is evaluated on merit and not on years of experience or interviewing skills... yes, real life coding is not the same as writing a specific program. that's why some screening methods are better than others
1. go to hackerrank.com 2. Pick a medium problem 3. Solve it with a 30 min timer 4. Find out how many test cases you fail Now imagine this happen in real life....you just lost your chance with a company you wanted to join
1. start a phone screen 2. get same question 3. don't answer it properly 4. think it goes ok because you managed to deflect the issues and say they explained the question poorly. you get denied anyways. this process allows companies to evaluate for people, this means that if you are good then you are less likely to be ignored off the bat. if you are failing medium level problems then you really should practice more
your assumption is that recruiters or even hiring managers know how to properly read a candidate's resume, and that the candidate knows how to write a proper resume. suggest coderpad... to get graded the exact same way you don't like? with advantage to people who studied. suggesting a take home assignment... cause your time is valuable. you mean likely getting the exact same questions and format, but likely taking more time?
I know hiring managers and recruiters suck. Maybe they shouldn't be paid as much then. The burden should be on them. Not you. Phone interviews add a human element. You can ask for hints, a good interviewer will let stupid bugs pass because they realize real life coding is not perfect. No such help with automated coding
if you want to work for them... if they want you, you'll likely go through regular screening interview with coder. burden is for whoever holds less leverage. whoever sets the rule determines the pipeline they want by the tactics they use. you don't like their system don't apply. nobody applies then they drop the system (granted this is what you're asking people to do).
This escalated quickly.
sounds like the op wants to eliminate the competition instead of beating the competition
Op makes a lot of sense actually. These types of questions are good only for a very small and specific set of positions, and majority of roles aren't that. We don't expect surgeons to pass a dentistry test when changing residencies or structural engineers to pass electronic circuitry tests. Specialization matters and until tech hiring industry understands that , hiring process is always going to be a shitshow
yes but no point in boycotting. just play by their rules and you pick the company you like most
your analogy with surgeons and dentistry doesn't hold up. it's more like testing dentists AND surgeons on biomedical diagnosis. give them a problem and they try to diagnosis it using fundamental processes.
You have a say in the rules. As someone who hires and is being hired. Entire tech industry is built on the premise of challenging the old way of doing things and perfecting things, why leave hiring process out of evolution?
OP: You can not change the system. You need to embrace it. Learn a programming language and practice leetcode / hackerrank / etc. Companies don't want smart people they need code monkeys to get the job done. The current screen process is to filter candidates. Companies want people who spend more time coding adding new features than smart people asking why we adding those features. Like the other day in Blind people doesn't know who are Steve Wozniak and Paul Allen but they are pro leetcode engineers. Sad but true. Good news: You can improve your coding skills in a few short time. If you become a pro coder you will become a valuable asset. Because you have the knowledge, experience and know the algorithm and coding skills required. Prepare to get many rejections and learn from your mistakes, but never give up.
Why is it relevant to know Paul and Steve, tell me. People come and go even the popular ones.
Why is it relevant to know Python, Ruby, Java, Scala, Prolog, Smalltalk, Haskell, Erlang, C, and Perl, tell me. Languages come and go, even the popular ones. Hint: because it makes you more than a code monkey.
I couldn't agree more. I did a couple of interviews last year just to see what it's like. I hadn't interviewed for almost 5 years, but had no plans to leave. I was really surprised. Case in point - interviewer (kid in diapers) pointed out a "better" solution but I said that would mean a whole lot more memory. He said don't worry about that. I was like, "huh? don't worry about what???" Knowing how to code is an essential pre-requisite, but judging an experienced person who had done a whole fucking lot of coding over a decade by asking how to twist a string in a weird way within 2 minutes, is just downright stupid. Having said that I also know it's not the norm. I did an interview with VMware. Those guys were just fantastic. I didn't want to move to Calif, otherwise I would have taken the job with a pay cut if I had to.
Hahah kid in diapers. I know exactly what you mean. Companies love those employees easy to mold, don't complain and follow orders.
I interview plenty of industry candidates for vendor agents. They tend to sweat over memory savings rather than correctness, smart algo or clean code. I prefer the later, I guess that makes me "kid in diapers"...
lol