Has this happened to any of you? This just happened to me yesterday for a software sales position. I received an offer on Friday after 5 rounds of interviews at $220k OTE - a little below what I wanted to make. I countered with something above what I wanted to make with the idea of meeting in the middle. They were very excited about my candidacy and I was very excited to accept. I honestly would have taken the initial offer if they had held firm. Met with the hiring manager and gave him my counter and went through my reasoning. I offered to accelerate training and remove guaranteed bonuses just to show him that I’m serious and confident that this would be a good role. He understood my reasoning and said he would check with Finance to see if it was possible and get back to me the following day. I got a Teams invitation the following day from the hiring manager expecting a counter, and which I would accept with great excitement. Instead, he pulled the offer completely because he thought I “would not be happy at [company]”. Even when I offered to take the original deal, he was extremely firm and would not continue to extend the offer. I spent about 45 minutes with him trying to figure out what had happened, when he said he had to go and ended the call. Never have I ever heard of such a thing. Just a complete gut punch of a process. I spoke with my friend at the company who says that the offer was rescinded because “negotiations got a little heavy”. Am I not supposed to negotiate?? Do they want sales reps who don’t negotiate with clients?? What’s wrong with simply holding firm on the original offer? What a load of bullshit. #sales #enterprise #SaaS #fintech
Also, you have to be careful of how much you counter for. Judging from what you said, you asked for too much money and it forced them to go find someone else who was cheaper. Get around this by disclosing your compensation expectations at the beginning of the interview process.
I did ask for more with the idea of meeting in the middle. It may have been too high for them to consider. The counter was more than I would have been happy with and more than I expected to receive. What do you think would lead a company to rescind an offer instead of hold firm at the initial offer?
Depending on how urgent the role is, they might have extended an offer to the next candidate. At that point, they are hoping the other candidate would accept and therefore wanted nothing more to do with you.
This is nuts. OP, would you mind telling us the name of the company?
Just a hypothesis, but it sounds like HR or the comp team at the company blocks the negotiation process.
It’s possible that all offers are final offers, but that was not clear. A firm “take it or leave it” would have ensured that I accepted the offer without undergoing this process. Instead, the HR manager suggested that I make a counter offer and the hiring manager entertained my counter. In any event, would that justify rescinding the offer completely?
OOC what was your counter? Curious why the HM was so offended by it.
I told him in two years I’d be making $300k OTE if I stayed but that I’m switching industries and understand that it isn’t an option at the offered role. I told him I’d like to get closer to that but understand that that’s out of range. I was expecting to agree at $240k or if I was lucky $250k-$260k. I probably overdid it, even though I was telling the truth. He told me there was no path to make that much at the company and that I’d be at high risk of leaving. Nothing could talk him out of that position during our second conversation. He was acting like I demanded $300k when I expressly was not. I guess the figure presented mattered more than the rest of what I said. Stupid to lose an offer over a miscommunication like this.
Yeah that sounds pretty annoying. I think you definitely overshot it. 300k vs 220 is asking for 36%. BUT I also think you dodged a bullet since that manager seems meh to work with.
I'd say it's not the norm, but it's also not uncommon. I have rescinded offers to candidates at previous companies. Sometimes the negotiation was actually just complaining. Sometimes the counter was simply ridiculous. Sometimes there were ultimatums on company policy (more vacation time, benefits) that were stated as non-negotiable. Mind you this was at small orgs, whereby a single unhappy employee and employee turnover is not only expensive but actually risky to the org (but really, this is a problem for any size org). Also most instances that come to mind were with young employees (i.e., inherently weak position to negotiate). Did you give an ultimatum? Did you express displeasure at the offer? Did you go hard on company policy issues such as vacation time or benefits? How many times did you decline or counter? Did you counter higher than say 10-20% above the original offer? Are you new(ish) to the working world? Orgs will have their unique norm/threshold of predicting what "unhappy" is, and all added together, it appears you surpassed that threshold, and TBH it sounds like the org might be on the anxious/fidgety/sensitive side of the culture scale. But there is also a lesson here on a cardinal rule of negotiation - willingness to walk away. Here, only (counter)offer up to, or just beyond, the point that you're not willing to accept. Here, it seems you were too casual with your counter, and you weren't prepared to walk away from the decline of it.
This is excellent feedback. Thank you for providing some perspective from the side of a hiring manager. I did not give an ultimatum or complain and I continually expressed interest at the offer and at staying with the company long term. All of it was honest. Out of the causes you’ve listed, I think the number I gave him was too high. It was, of course, not what I was asking for, but that’s on me for not simply asking for something that I would have accepted that was closer. With an excellent record of 6-8 years of enterprise sales, even $300k is in range. Again, not what I was asking for. It’s also possible that my offer to accelerate training and remove the guaranteed bonus was interpreted as a grievance with company policy. Still, a firm “no” would have put that to bed. As a hiring manager, what would make you pull an offer rather than simply hold firm?
Actually, pretty much all of my instances that I can remember, HR was a major factor in rescinding an offer or stopping negotiations (as with a lot of companies, the hiring manager is insulated from that in order to mitigate bias). I don't care so much really. At some point though there will be a disconnect, and intuition will simply say it's not going to work. A bad hire is a colossal PITA for a manager and an org. Also, if the company has a lot of potential candidates lined up, that could be a factor too. So, I'd recommend keeping in mind that cardinal rule of negotiation - only negotiate to the extent that you're willing to walk away. Also, if your negotiation was in writing, that could be problematic as well, as it forced them to make a decision, rather than both sides working through it real time. Also, orgs typically have logic/strategy to their offers, such as paying for salary surveys, or if it's a large org, referencing the distribution of comp of similar/same titles and employee profiles you're interviewing for.
sounds like you dodged a bullet
Probably. If a sales manager doesn’t want to negotiate OR won’t stay firm during a negotiation without taking it personally, that’s a major red flag.
Work in tech sales here. They should've expected you to negotiate aggressively and known how to handle it to get everyone happy with a compromise. That's the essence of sales. I don't think he nixxed you out of offense or because you did anything wrong. He probably nixxed you because he knew you just weren't going to be happy with the overall comp. OTE is one thing but the guy knows the pipeline and what is realistic or not within the territory. If you're telling him you'd be making $300K in a few years and he knows no one else on the team has been hitting OTE for the last year for reasons out of their control, that's a strong indication you're not gonna be happy and not stick around. Take it as a blessing.
This is the first time I’ve heard the theory that they were exaggerating the true earnings and you might just be right. That would tie this together nicely. If I took a job at $220k OTE and it only really paid $180k, then he would know that I would be unhappy. Makes sense.
So many companies lie about hitting their numbers. My past sales job did that to me it was terrible
Enterprise Sales AEs at VMware make $300k+ OTE, and $400k+ at GCP. You’re better off pursuing ones where your comp will be worth your time and effort.
Glad to see all the comments so nice and informative. I’m not in sales but glad I’ve learned something here. This is what Blind should be for
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Just imagine how they would react when u ask for promotion... Sucks that it didn’t work out the way you wanted, but they probably just found someone else who had a better risk adjusted return in their eyes. I wouldn’t worry about it and focus on companies with TC and growth opportunities in my range.
This is a good point and seems to be the conventional wisdom. If they are this rigid in salary negotiations, then there are other issues with dysfunctional management inside, especially with advancement and raises. One item of note is that the hiring manager said that he couldn’t even find a path to my TC request, meaning advancement is rough. Not sure how they keep turnover low with this kind of thing. Anything you would have done differently?
It sounds like you came in a little heavy handed based on what your friend said and the HM’s reaction (regardless of what you think, this is the message you are receiving from multiple people at the company.) Take this instance as feedback and do a better job of reading the room next time. Don’t let it demoralize you! We have all been through this before whether on an interview, deal, etc.