Amazon L7 to Google L6?

Amazon outland
May 26 55 Comments

Amazon L7 SDM (AWS) offered Google L6 SDM role. Team size reduces by 4X. From managing managers going to managing IC.

Worth taking?

YOE: 15. TC (Amazon): 550K
Don’t have Google TC yet.

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TOP 55 Comments
  • Google drand49
    Depends what you want to optimize for. I came from AWS, miss the team/culture there. Google pampers its employees. If that's what you want, go for it. They're the best at it. If you want to have impact and do stuff, stay at AWS.

    SWE, 320k TC
    May 26 4
    • Amazon outland
      OP
      Thanks. Some more questions since you’ve been at AWS earlier.
      What do you miss from AWS (specifically) that is missing at Google?

      How does Google pamper employees :)?

      If you don’t mind me asking - does Google offer refills (stocks) every year? Is your TC @Google a step-up from AWS?
      May 26
    • Google drand49
      AWS encourages product ownership from its engineering staff. Google less so, that's way more driven from the product teams. It has a more authoritarian feeling to it, like if you challenge the decisions, you're swimming outside of your lane. At AWS it was encouraged and expected to challenge anything you thought wasn't right. And you can drive product decisions you're passionate about.

      Google also has a really arrogant engineering culture. It's a pretty obvious side effect of a leetcode-driven interviewing process in retrospect. For example, everyone here uses the term "Google-scale", as if they're undoubtedly working at greater scale than anyone else, but coming from one of the largest scale AWS services, and having looked at all the metrics at both companies, it's a pretty laughable claim.

      Google has better tooling for most of the coding-specific flows, but AWS has better tools for every other engineering function. I strongly miss the metrics tooling and culture at AWS. And pipelines. Google just doesn't have a similar story around operational excellence.

      Google pampers its employees in every way. Food, massages, micro kitchens with snacks, 401k match, random spot bonuses for doing exceptional things (low bar for that here), peer bonuses, lack of frugality for expensing things and discretionary budgets.

      Basically if you want to rest and vest, go to Google. I'm quite young in my career (4 YOE) and want to build big things so I'll probably be moving on, either back to AWS or somewhere else.

      TC at Google is higher, but I was promoted at Amazon into low ish end of band (unavoidable without VP exception I hear). If I boomerang back, it'd be at top of band with comparable pay.
      May 27
    • Google drand49
      Obviously everything at big companies is highly team specific. This is just my particular story generalized to the companies as a whole.
      May 27
    • Google drand49
      Another important culture item to mention: AWS has a written narrative culture, which is fantastic. Google has the opposite culture: Don't write anything down because it's a legal liability. This annoys me so much.
      May 27
  • Amazon L7 maps to Google L6 so not really a downgrade.
    May 26 22
    • Yes it's blind and everyone gets 850k offer. For all we know oiuwiaaaw is a cross of Jeff Dean and Jeff Bezos in the morning and Batman at night.
      May 27
    • Amazon oiuwiaaaw
      Lol :) 850 is not that high for L7s at Amazon with stock appreciation in the Bay Area. New L7 SDM hires come close to that anyway. L5 SDEs come on at 300+ plus at Amazon and L6 SDEs come around 450K and you can go higher with exceptions.. And for @missone its an L7 SDM for GCP in the Bay Area, I had my Amazon comp and an offer from Uber as well. you are right, it’s blind, I also take everything said with a grain of salt. I’m not saying that Amazon pays awesome for everyone but it does pay top tiers pretty good. That’s the comp philosophy. FWIW I have been at Amazon since 2010
      May 27
    • Google topCon
      Not sure where you're getting your data but it seems way off.

      https://www.levels.fyi/charts.html
      May 27
    • Amazon oiuwiaaaw
      I’m getting the data based on my experience and offers I made as a manager to candidates. As mentioned this is Bay Area and new offers are higher as the comp ranges have been revisited this year, the link you posted I didn’t dig enough to see the difference per geography and offer dates. If you were talking about the levels, I also shared levels.fyi. For SDMs. Also remember this is for the engineering manager track not IC. There isnt a reason for me to lie about Amazon, I’m not a founder of the company and I would have left if I got a better competing offer than what I make now and I will in the future. Plenty of drawbacks in Amazon but not comp for L7s and above, it is now also starting to look great for L6s as well
      May 27
    • Morgan Stanley ninja007
      oiuwiaaaw’s numbers are spot on. The Uber moron doesn’t know anything
      Aug 9
  • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
    Send this to the recruiter and ask em to F off. L6 SDM G sounds like a BIG downgrade compared to L7 SDM Amazon if levels.fyi is close to accurate
    May 26 0
  • Google / Eng modi_56
    It might be worth it. Working with Google caliber ICs is a different beast.
    May 26 4
    • Google Petersen
      Google caliber ICs 😂😂😂
      May 26
    • Microsoft pohfr
      Those google caliber ICs already left google. You’ll be lucky to see any amazon caliber ICs there.
      May 26
    • Google drand49
      Been at Google. Been at AWS. The caliber is the same. The only difference I've seen is that the 0th percentile new grads at Google aren't as bad, but AWS is better at PIPing them out of there anyway.
      May 27
    • Glassdoor yazu
      modi_56 - Getting into Google only means you did a lot of leetcode, nothing more 😉
      May 27
  • Amazon wishmegl!
    L7 SDM asks Blind for advice? We all want to know how to become an L7 SDM.
    May 26 2
    • Amazon outland
      OP
      How to become an L7 SDM? For another day. Right now, I need inputs ;)
      May 26
    • Google / Eng
      frnDfrckn

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      frnDfrcknmore
      No offense but all l7 sdms in my ex org were hastily promoted based on how many LPs they name dropped in any meeting.
      May 26
  • LinkedIn mojit0
    Unless you want to really quit amazon or the TC is much higher, don't take a down level. From all I've heard, getting promoted at Google is very arbitrary
    May 26 4
    • Amazon / Eng MeatCrayon
      Is it a down level tho? Isnt L7 at Amazon equivalent to L6 at Google?
      May 26
    • Amazon outland
      OP
      From what I’ve been told by the recruiter - L7 from Amazon maps to L6 at Google. But I am not sure if she is just saying it.
      May 26
    • Amazon / Eng MeatCrayon
      It does. The recruiter is right.

      You can check out levels.fyi as well, it's a good resource for questions such as these.
      May 26
    • Google bofo
      L7 SDM role at Amazon is equivalent to L7 TLM role at Google.
      May 27
  • Amazon / PR jefe_bezos
    It’s generally a lateral move financially but a significant impact/scope downgrade. If you feel stuck or bored, then go for it. You can always come back.
    May 26 0
  • Apple alicetheda
    Why would you take it? Seems downgrade
    May 26 5
    • Amazon outland
      OP
      Diversification? Learning from different organizational cultures.
      May 26
    • Apple alicetheda
      Why not just take a director level role in a startup then?
      May 26
    • Amazon outland
      OP
      Director level role in startup - yes, an option to consider. Haven’t explored it (not interviewed there yet).
      May 26
    • Facebook jsLc57
      Can you join late stage startup like Airbnb as director from Amazon L7?
      May 26
    • Apple alicetheda
      You sure can apply for one. If you are a senior manager, managing 20+ people then I dont see a reason why not
      May 27
  • Uber Gp42q5
    I would not take it unless Amazon is truly awful.
    May 26 1
    • Google drand49
      Pretty much agree with this. I'd take it to my VP to parlay it into top of band comp, if you have a good rapport with your VP, @OP.
      May 27
  • Amazon doghou
    Depends on TC and ICs level
    May 26 1
    • Amazon outland
      OP
      TC unknown. iCs level is 5 and 6 (that’s what I am told)
      May 26
  • Google / Eng
    frnDfrckn

    Google Eng

    PRE
    Amazon
    frnDfrcknmore
    I wouldn't take it. I've known several l6 sdms come in at l6 em.
    May 26 0
  • Amazon tzchar0
    Useless until you know tc (or gtfo
    May 26 0

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