If you had over 10+ yoe, tech lead or senior role at the current company, and you got a L5 offer from Amazon. Recruiter said "Dont worry, you will get promoted to L6 very quickly if you prove your ability". Better money, better fame, potention to work as senior, why not? It sounds not too bad doesnt it? Think again before accepting it. You will need to be prepared to be stuck in SDEII for two or even more years (or until you leave Amazon) competing with smart junior SDEIIs over the less challenging with relatively small impact projects. There will be new hire SDEIIIs who may have less experience and knowledge than you and all the SDEIIs will listen up to him but you because you are just a SDEII. Most of the SDEI get promoted to SDEII in 2 years at most, and they will think you are not that different to them. Of course after one or two years you will be reconized as a senior SDEII and people will come to you to ask questions. That's it, while the new hire SDEIIIs will automatically get involved in more interesting projects and leading role, mentoring the other SDEs and more chance to talk to principal engineers and the senior managers. There is a process that you have to take to get promoted to L6 promotion, and that usually can take years of hard work with proven record with multiple review reports from the other senior sdes and sdms, and majority of SDEIIs fail to achieve that and leave. I am also in that situation and I am pretty sure many others are. Think again seriously before joining as SDEII just for money and the name value if you are a +10yoe senior/principal or tech lead now. I did that, and it is really not fun.
Yeah. It’s the same technique recruiters use over and over. This and also, “yeah there’s going to be rapid growth on this team and you’ll have ppl to manage”
I know. But I knew what they do so In dont want to blame those guys. Just wanted to point out that Amazon's SDEII position can be harmful for those who want to continue the senior role in dev.
I got the same situation... And its a catch.....
This is a standard recruiter lie. Google recruiters do it too.
Sure. How about L4/L5 life at Google? Is it similer to what I described here? Also wondering if E4/E5 at Facebook could be the same.
I'm admittedly biased because I've been at Google almost 10 years and thus have only seen ex-AMZN employees who've made their way to Google. They seem uniformly happier at Google than Amazon. Can't speak to L4/L5 life in general unless you have more specific questions. (I've been L6 for a while now.) Things at Google depend a lot on location and org, and I've been in Boston for most of my Google tenure.
Just get hired in as L6. Problem solved.
Probably I am not good enough for that now. My option could be leaving and coming back as SDEIII or staying out of FANG for better control and ownership of the projects.
This. Never join ANY company at a lower grade, even for higher compensation. Promotions aren't guaranteed, and it is harder to perform at a lower level which you may have outgrown. Don't let recruiters and hiring committees determine your career based on their convenience and judgment.
Agree. I thought I could have beaten all the other SDEIIs and got promoted as I was very confident but in reality there were a pack of people like me in SDEII position and competing like crazy with no promotion. And the another half is full of just smart fresh junior guys who do not value the advice from experienced engineers. I feel like I am wasting my knowledge and experience here.
That's a mistake many people make when they look to get out of their current shitty jobs, or worse, if they are obsessed with FAANG.
Agreed but from my experience people who joined at sde2 at > 10 yoe didn't have better option in hand. Other options were offering significantly lower TC and/or brand value. Many of them feared that by rejecting amazon offer they might land in mediocre non FAANG jobs (I don't have any intention to say that Amazon job is not mediocre)
You are right. I didnt have any other options when I joined, as I wasnt vigorously looking for a new role. Just wanted a new challenge, Amazon contacted me, offered a position so I accepted it naively hoping Amazon would not waste my knowledge and experience:) I didn't fully understand SDEII role could be a career position and the promotion was very limited to a tiny percentage. I am actually considering moving to non FANG companies or returning to start up.
I hear FANGs like facebook and uber will fast track you to the next level
Having just more experience doesn't mean one should be promoted. You have to prove yourself. In my team there are people with 25 year experience but only senior software engineer and people with 10 year experience who are senior staff. Usually people who are staff have proven themselves by leading a project or they are famous as maintainer of open source projects. Have you thought you need to work on some areas, like playing politics, depending upon your team culture. I think that's one of the reasons companies don't like to hire someone from outside at very senior role because there is no way to judge if they will perform better at leadership roles.
This is bollocks, but yes, this is how most people think. It's the reality. In hierarchies, people's abilities show only as much as the opportunities that their hierarchy provides. Once you're locked in to a job, and wait for a year for internal transfer, people ask what you did for the previous 6 months. Good luck talking about past experience or showing your worth when you were hired for building someone else's empire, and not for any challenging projects! When you need to learn politics, you know it's rotten, and it has nothing to do with your experience. Get buddies with the top bosses to make progress and pretend to be cool and wise.
@VMware I am not saying I should be promoted nor that's not my point.
oh boy, what a fucking complainer. so let me get this straight, amazon reached out, paid you more and now you’re complaining that you didn’t ask for more or what are you exactly talking about? your talent is being wasted? brother, if you’ve over 10 YOE and make less than $500k you are not that talented. wake up from the wet dream
Oh fuck.. I have 12 yoe and get 380k. Before your post, I was thinking that I am talented. Now I need to seek a new beginning
You probably are right. I am not talented but probably there are many other people like me that would make the same mistake that I did, so I wanted to let them think about the dark side.
I also made the mistake, got in at lower level, but $ was good. However I got a promo in 1.5 yrs, which resulted in even higher $. However considering how things went, I would also advice to not take a lower level unless one does not have other options.
TC?