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How does Canada compare to USA for Indians?

Facebook somebooty
Mar 9

I am never gonna get a GC in this country, thanks to the immigration rules here.

How does Canada compare to USA for software engineers ?

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  • Intel x86dude
    Thanks to immigration rules, there is an equal chance to other nations to get a GC
    Mar 932
    • Facebook somebooty
      OP
      Thanks for the long explanation @UGEJ58.

      I feel like immigration debate on blind is super controversial. It’s all my fault, I shouldn’t have mentioned that I am leaving this country because of GC reasons.

      I don’t have any power in this country anyway, so better to move on instead of creating heated debates.

      Anyways, nothing personal, chill out bro
      Mar 10
    • Google / OtherfbFf44
      Again - I am not asking for 50 million more people. I am asking for meaningful reform starting with baby steps. Why are there baby steps needed - because it's broken.

      From the argument that you are making, you are definitely conservative on immigration, for the right reasons - the one that I am talking about doesn't increase immigration by one number. Yeah !
      It is the only meaningful reform that has bipartisan support. (https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/these-3-changes-would-drastically-improve-our-immigration-system)

      Regarding fucking natural born - this isn't true either. This bill doesn't again, change any overall employment quota. US will still approve only 140k visas. That isn't changing. What was the previous flow will remain as is. How could that fuck citizens? Infact, this bill reduces wage depression, because employers can't hold employees hostage to their jobs and this means labor mobility and increased wages across the board. You are getting fucked by 3-4% wage depression every year because of the backlog. Passing this bill will ensure that the backlog clears.

      Also note, this doesn't meaningfully change family immigration.

      Every year around a million enter the country based on blood lines. This bill doesn't remove country caps on that. It only removes only on employment immigration, which vets me for my skills.

      If you believe in Merit, this is literally the baby step. To say let's wait for the grand bargain is like betting on a horse that's not born yet. All that the country caps bill does is baby steps, whether the horse that was born indeed can kick. How can you epcect to make large reforms when you can't prove you have made baby steps?
      Mar 10
    • Facebook somebooty
      OP
      Btw, my point wasn’t to lift the country cap, but to fix the abuse done by body shops which block the queue with fraudulent gc applications. Genuine Indians don’t get GC due to that.

      Without the abuse GC queue for India would have been the same as China: people getting gc in 3-4 years.

      Anyways, I have no rights here anyways, so better to move on silently rather than bringing that point that can make me sound “privileged “
      Mar 10
    • Intel UGeJ58
      @Google, I definitely agree with those policy suggestions. I actually am fully in support of reform in the correct and smart ways (we have plenty of flaws currently). It actually pains me that H1B has no path to citizenship because they do have the biggest positive impact for the country's global competition. It makes no sense and is absolutely an example of Congress being in bed with lobbying corporations like Intel to promote wage stagnation and treat workers as slaves.

      In regards to 140k visas distributed amongst all countries, that makes sense. I think a hard cap is bad, but I would prefer a system that promotes diversity within that group. I still believe all of those visas need to automatically roll into a merit-earned GC at 10 years or so. (I don't claim to know the best number) their children have grown up here and they are fully investing their lives to help this country.
      Mar 10
    • Google / OtherfbFf44
      Again you are not remembering that there is diversity Visa for this. See, when someone hires you, they don't hire you from where you are born - they hire you because you can do the work . Employment Visa is for, you guessed it, employment. If diversity is important for employment Visa, should it also be important for hiring somebody?

      BTW it's illegal to hire someone based on country of birth. That's what eeo law says. I understand your concerns about diversity but that should be fixed by increasing diversity visa, not fuck with people who have proven they have skills to do a job and after employer promising in a legal document to hire the employee based on skill.
      Mar 10
    • Intel UGeJ58
      @Google I believe the government needs small and incremental changes for every law created. Sweeping change usually only serves to hurt individuals - either through the law itself or by the lack of infrastructure supporting the change.
      Mar 10
    • Google / OtherfbFf44
      Exactly, that's why the bill I am referring is a super incremental change. It enjoyed 300+ cosponsors in house, precisely because it was even okay with anti immigrant groups. Both liberal and conservatives both agree that this bill is a baby step towards merit based system, where on an employment Visa, you have first come first serve system.

      Infact, you are making my argument that we need to pass small meaningful immigration reforms instead of a comprehensive immigration reform, with 20+ riders on it.

      Again this bill is very small bill and it does small meaningful changes to the system.
      Mar 10
    • Facebook somebooty
      OP
      @UGeJ8 To year point regarding “sweeping change “, the bill doesn’t really make any change.

      The unfortunate Indians without GC are already here living for past several years, the bill just aims to reduce their GC wait time from an absurd duration.

      It isn’t bringing any new people to this country.
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft sushue
      OP this is an aside. The other benefit of working in Canada is workers have a lot of protective rights. For example, Canadian businesses don't have mandatory arbitration for their workers.
      .In the US when you join a tech company you sign the end of a thick pile of paperwork which includes a statement about accepting mandatory arbitration. In addition to this there strong unions in Canada that protect the rights of all workers. I guess this is what the high taxes pay for and this is where Canada is way ahead of the US.
      Some articles: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2019/01/02/court-puts-brakes-on-uber-bid-to-have-drivers-resolve-work-issues-overseas.html

      https://www.wired.com/story/tech-workers-unite-fight-forced-arbitration/
      7d
    • Microsoft sushue
      I am actually wondering if these protective rights are a reason why US tech companies don't have a strong presence in Canada. Haha
      7d
  • Salesforce lololl
    You would save more money by moving back to India rather than Canada, also have way more opportunities and better weather
    Mar 921
    • Salesforce lololl
      @tech.ladki, I am talking about the current generation not the older one. So your kids would not have that problem. Unless you are unmarried and looking to marry a non-indian it wouldn't matter where you live would it? The name calling is not appreciated either
      Mar 9
    • Walmart.com s2a7
      OP, standard of living in India is improving big time, but only in pockets. It will be quite a while (several decades) B4 we get consistently good infrastructure and services everywhere, but everything else makes it up for me. A major factor behind India's appeal, for me, is the very existence of these inefficiencies, since it creates lots of opportunities for starting something up that solves one such pain point, potentially improving the lives of several hundreds of millions of people.

      @tech.ladki True, there are communities all over India that wouldn't allow their daughters and sons to marry outside their caste and community. Sometimes it has little to do with caste, like South Indian parents are strongly against giving away their daughters to anyone but South Indians, etc. But, as many pointed out, all this bull crap is so last decade. Our sons and daughters would be growing up in a very different India because I, for sure, won't give a fcuk about the caste or community of her/his bf/gf. Would you ?
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft
      tech.ladki

      Microsoft

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      tech.ladkimore
      @Salesforce
      As of today, millennials (who have their profiles on matrimony websites), are obsessed with caste , ethnicity, lineage, unlike Westerns of the same when group. When the culture changes, I'm.happy to acknowledge it, but today I'm justified in calling Indian culture as shallow and superficial.
      You are probably one of those insecure Indians on Blind who can't stand any criticism of their country.
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft
      tech.ladki

      Microsoft

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      tech.ladkimore
      @Walmart
      If the future has a different India, that is great, but if today's India is superficial, I'm justified in calling it so, even if it makes some hyper patriotic Indian uncomfortable.
      Hundreds of Indians trolled a British guy got scoring full marks on IIT physics paper. That's the level of insecurity Indians have TODAY. Not sure about the future.
      https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/british-student-at-oxford-gets-iit-jee-100-per-cent-right-angry-indians-abuse-him-and-his-mom-1024163-2017-07-13
      Mar 10
    • Walmart.com s2a7
      @msft Just as you are entitled to your opinion, I m entitled to mine, which may be very different from yours. Learn to accept, celebrate and debate differences instead of attacking it. My only point was regarding what we as Indians can do to make India better for our next generation.
      Mar 10
    • Salesforce lololl
      @tech.ladki, I never said there aren't any problems with india and everyone knows what they are. But undoubtedly things are getting better. You complain about shallowness of India, while you live in a country that elected and still supports trump.
      Mar 10
    • Facebook somebooty
      OP
      Damn, right on ! @lolll

      @tech.ladki India has its problems true, but it’s the only country where you won’t face xenophobia.
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft
      tech.ladki

      Microsoft

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      tech.ladkimore
      Seriously? Xenophobia is way more in India than the US. The article about the brutal student being trolled is just one example.

      This article by a msft engineer talks about it in detail.
      https://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/comment/look-within-are-indians-not-racist/380701.html

      And I'm not saying the US has no problems, but Indian culture is more shallow, and people are more concerned lineage, race etc more in India than the US. Some of us are too insecure to admit it.
      And for those of you think, future culture of India works be great, I sure hope so, but nothing wing in calling today's culture out for what it is. If rather be honest than "patriotic".
      Mar 10
    • Amazon / Engmdiiytedhk
      Indians are only racist towards other Indians 😂. They present a very different face to foreigners
      Mar 10
    • Facebook somebooty
      OP
      @tech.ladki I agree with you. India is in Stone Age still, cast, race based discrimination, superstition is prevalent.

      I was just hoping things would improve but noone knows.
      Mar 10
  • Google
    tsukino

    Google

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    tsukinomore
    Multiculturally, I've heard that Canada is considered a "mosaic" (diversity welcome) whereas the US is a "melting pot" (assimilation encouraged)
    Mar 91
    • Uber DemNts
      Lived in Canada and US and I completely agree with this. Immigrants live their culture in Canada whereas in America conforms to American culture.
      Mar 9
  • Microsoft nutszy
    TLDR : less pay , nicer people , brutal weather, more security in Canada
    Hey Op,
    I empathise with you . Being someone like you in the same boat two years back and successful making the move , I will reason with you .

    Disclaimer : I am a desi , followed the usual IIT/NIT/ REC path for engineering -> MS in US -> high tech job .
    You have every right to criticise and this is an absolute privilege when compared to India ( read about the curtailed freedom of speeches for pro Pakistani Kashmiri and pro Dalits urban maoists )

    Coming to your statement of “young Indians have zero chance of getting GC” is true only for EB1 / EB2 / EB3 . There are other avenues open such as EB4 / EB5 / Marriage to USC ,GC / Refugee . Just because you aren’t willing to change to circumstances , the world is not change to fit to for you . But again you have the full right to criticise about the world not ready to change .

    Can you criticise ? Yes
    Is your criticism valid ? I wouldn’t think so.
    The United States has been clear since 1965 about their per country quota limits , the state department release every quarter how many student visas were approved per country . The USCIS releases bi yearly amount of H1B and GC filed . It was easy to estimate how long the queue will be ( USCIS only released the wait list details in August 2018 , but hey we are not looking for pointer precision) . The question is why would you want to go through this knowing the queue will never fix . Because the benefits / salary seemed very nice at the moment . Now you want more , but EB2 / EB3 is simply not going to get you there. I would say cut your losses and seek the end goal . If it’s stable life without visa headaches , move to Canada , if you want a great lifestyle, stay in the US but other things won’t follow .I for myself will claim ignorance and paid dearly wasting 2 years of my life before moving to Canada .

    Coming to your point of other countries having it better. Many people from other countries don’t want to pursue CS because of a variety of things high tuition cost , limited universities .. etc . Things which we dint have a problem in India . ( People join the army not able to afford tuition hoping to get Veteran benefits — That’s how bad it is ) . You are removing one aspect of life ( place of birth ) and comparing it yours , it simply will never be simple like that . Appreciate the struggles others go through and make peace ( of course they are outliars - if you were Mukesh Ambani’s son , you wouldn’t be complaining would you)

    Coming to main question of Canada I took half a pay cut ( my salary at msft Remond was not anywhere near what I see in Blind) . The weather is brutal . People are super nice in Vancouver . My priority in life was to have a power which would allow me to walk out of a bad job and not think of any other consequences ( which PR gave me) .

    My advice , Asses the conditions , pick your priorities and make peace with it ( without criticising )
    Mar 94
    • Facebook somebooty
      OP
      What is wrong with people like you ?

      Why is it a sin to say that America ‘s immigration system isn’t great for Indians ? That’s the harsh truth people like you don’t want to hear. Why people want to make it a taboo like sex ?

      Yes, I should be greatful for things I have, yes there are other people living worse life than me. But at the end of the day the above fact remains fact.
      Comparison has no end, comparing me with the state of Pakistan and telling that my freedom of speech is absolute privilege is BS.

      I can apply the same logic and tell that “you are privileged to be alive” compared to people in Middle East. Wouldn’t that make sense too?

      I am not blaming anyone or demanding anything, I am just stating the reason due to which I am looking at other options. Why you guys take it so personally . Even the politicians of this country say “our immigration system is broken “ including Trump, though they might not be referring to the Indians’ problem.

      So if they say that it’s okay, and if an immigrant says the same thing it’s a sin ?

      That’s crazy, sees how biased some people are towards immigrants. And it’s sad to see fellow immigrants like you behave the same way.
      Mar 9
    • Facebook somebooty
      OP
      And yeah Canadian people are indeed nicer, they provided helpful comments here, instead of rebuking me for saying that “US’s immigration system isn’t perfect “. You should probably learn something from them.

      What you expect me to say? Just post “I am looking to move out of US” and hide the reason why I am doing that, because it’s related to US immigration system ?
      Mar 9
    • Microsoft nutszy
      Faaakkkk that enlightened me like there is no tomorrow. I am grateful to be alive . Thank you lord Facebook for making me aware .
      Mar 9
    • Facebook somebooty
      OP
      Ha ha...

      I wish you well regardless
      Mar 10
  • EMC noppos
    Canada : Bad weather but great life. Yes taxes are huge but government tries to take care of you. You won’t have to pay insane money for health. Schools are free and almost everyone opts for public schools.
    The most important part is that they don’t have enough people so every life counts
    Mar 90
  • Microsoft sacré
    After taxes, you will get peanuts in Canada. India is much better even from saving perspectives, let alone career opportunities. Canada is good/decent for non-tech companies
    Mar 90
  • Two Sigma threesigma
    Growing up as a minority in Canada felt much better than living in the US. Software engineering seems like the same except less cool companies and less money.
    Mar 90

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