Microsoft offer vs Zillow offer

Oracle YUcb24
May 31 69 Comments

Currently working at Oracle as Software Engineer 2.
Current TC: 155k
Current Base: 120k
Current stocks: 150k over 4 years
Current Location: Bay Area

Microsoft Azure Data & Intelligence team:
Base: 117k
Stocks: 130k
Sign-on: 25k
Relocation: 5k
Location: Seattle

Zillow Machine Learning Engineer Offer:
Base: 145k
Sign-on: 50k over two years
Relocation: 10k
Stocks: 75k
Location: Seattle

Still waiting for offer details from Microsoft OneDrive team.

Is there any room for negotiation at Microsoft?

I told Zillow I wanted 150k in stocks, is there any room for negotiation to ask more, like 200k?

YoE: 2.5 years

I am an international student (Got my Masters from a school in Ithaca) and I didn’t get H1B yet. I still have 2 more tries. I hear Microsoft can send me to Canada. What will Zillow do?

Considering my situation, what do you suggest? Or do you suggest take one and interview at other places? If so, which one?

Please comment your answers with reason.
PS: Puns are welcome. 🍿

98 VOTES SELECT ONLY ONE ANSWER
VOTE VIEW RESULT

comments

Want to comment? LOG IN or SIGN UP
TOP 69 Comments
  • Zillow Group TKact2345
    You should easily be able to negotiate Zillow upward, but stock they aren’t super flexible on. You’re better off asking for higher base and sign on. That said, I think the stock component is low, even for a P2 MLE.

    Zillow AI is basically the Wild West. Things move slow because every team is basically on their own with minimal infrastructure support. It’s great for your career growth, as you’ll learn more than anywhere else.

    Zillow will start your green card process pretty quickly, but obviously doesn’t help you if you’re from a country with a backlog. You should ask your recruiter about what will happen if you’re H1B fails. It’s a fair question.
    May 31 5
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Does Zillow have offices outside Us? I see Vancouver in careers section but there aren’t any roles there. So i am worried because with Microsoft I have at least job security even if the pay is really low. I don’t know what to do. Higher pay vs job security in terms of visa.

      What components of salary do you think I could still negotiate? Any insights are appreciated.

      Say if they bump up, would you suggest Zillow over Microsoft considering H1B. I come under Masters category and have my masters degree in computer science.

      So should I not consider Zillow because of Visa?
      May 31
    • Zillow Group TKact2345
      Are you sure you have job security? Are you able to get through Canadian immigration in a timely fashion? Has Microsoft promised you they’d find you another team if you don’t get h1b?

      Honestly, there are very few companies that will actually work through that. My understanding is microsoft is being less helpful around those that don’t get h1b in time. But that’s just going off hearsay. I wouldn’t bank on it just because they have overseas offices. You should actually ask and find out what their procedure is. You’ll probably find your employment contract is contingent to work authorization in the US.

      Zillow does have a Vancouver office, but no AI there. So yes there are some dev roles, but I haven’t had any coworkers that have faced that situation. Again, this is something you should ask the recruiter. Say what you’ve said here, and that you’re thinking of going elsewhere because of the lack of security. Let your recruiter figure some arrangement out.

      Salary and cash are far more flexible than stock. It’s a lot harder for your recruiter to move that needle. Than the former.
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      By job security I mean sending employees to different locations. Personally if I don’t have to worry about these visa issues I would have selected Zillow. Microsoft has a campus in India, Canada and other countries which they could send me to.

      I should talk to Zillow about it. Even if there are no AI teams in Canada, if I could work from Canada and move back to US on L1 visa, then I’d choose Zillow. I am personally unaware of what they’d be doing.

      Oh also one more thing, does Zillow have annual performance bonus and hikes? Or they don’t do such things like Oracle or some other companies.
      May 31
    • Zillow Group TKact2345
      They could... but will they? It seems other than Google, Facebook, Airbnb, etc, they don’t actually do that if it’s difficult for them. I remember talking to companies here that refused to recruit me because I was international, and they wouldn’t bother considering me for their offices in my home country as they are so separated.

      I wouldn’t bank on it unless you get reasonable confirmation from your recruiters.

      Yes, they aren’t massive hikes, but they are fair. You don’t get cash bonuses, only stock refreshers. Sounds like they put you at the top end of a P2. Which means you could expect to get upleveled at 6-12 months.
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      I heard from folks that Microsoft, Oracle, Google are generally sending employees to Canada or India if they don’t get H1B in 3 tries. At least these companies have campuses abroad. Zillow is the one company I am not sure because Zillow doesn’t have a campus abroad.

      I hope Zillow gets back with a positive news as I really want to join the company. Say if.l recruiter gets back after talking to law firm saying that I could work from Zillow Canada, which I am not sure yet because Zillow’s office in Canada is something I don’t know. On careers section there are no roles in Canada or no teams in Canada. But if recruiter says I can go to Canada, do you suggest that I ask it in writing on offer letter?

      Also how much more can I ask for base pay? How much more can I ask for sign on bonus?

      What’s the average hike like? At Microsoft I hear it’s usually 5 -10%.

      What’s the usual annual performance bonus like? At Microsoft it’s 0-20% but people get 10% on an average. So I may get 10% at Microsoft at the least. How is it in Zillow?
      May 31
  • Microsoft / Eng vXXu41
    Your credentials sound good and voted for you to take the Microsoft job, but reading this thread makes me want you to take the Zillow position.
    Jun 1 2
    • Oracle techlord
      Could you explain your reason? Also I am struggling to find how good the team at Microsoft is and I am not getting any information. It would be greatly appreciated if you could provide your insights.
      Jun 1
    • Microsoft / Eng vXXu41
      Lots of indecision over something the OP has little control over (dealing with ambiguity). Many have suggested possible routes, but the constant response is "but it's a lottery, dude". The OP needs to talk to their recruiter, not Blind as they have the best answers, this is a common issue (basic problem solving). I realize that the decision is difficult and they are probably looking for comfort. Microsoft has lots of resources to help folks with visas, green cards and if they want, citizenship. I was born in the US so I haven't had to go through the process, but I do know a lot of people that have. It's the same issue no matter what US company the OP chooses.

      Finding out how good a team is at MS is a different question altogether, the OP (or you) should talk with the hiring manager. Ask them about a typical day, tech, team goals, etc...
      Jun 2
  • Microsoft / Eng pxXW78
    MS for good engineering culture, Zillow not even a tech company
    May 31 1
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Is there any room for negotiation at Microsoft?
      May 31
  • Capital One IukP56
    Get Microsoft
    May 31 25
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Yeah have to make a decision.
      May 31
    • Zillow Group TKact2345
      This guy explains it best so read this: https://www.hooyou.com/f-1/140filing.htm

      If you’re not Indian or Chinese, you honestly have nothing to worry about. You can get your green card within 2 years on a nonimmigrant visa.
      May 31
    • Capital One IukP56
      If hope you are not indian/Chinese and if you are then don’t worry if you have approved immigrant visa petition.
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      I am Indian lol.
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      That’s my problem. I really really want to join Zillow but I am afraid about visa
      May 31
  • Amazon
    Maxter

    Amazon

    BIO
    Yo-yo Chen
    Maxtermore
    MS hands down
    May 31 6
    • Amazon
      Maxter

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      Maxtermore
      MS is very flexible in moving you to Vancouver if there are immigration issues. Can’t say the same for Zillow
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Yeah that’s one reason that’s stopping me from accepting Zillow even if the pay and work is good. I don’t even know what they’d be doing if I don’t get H1B and I’m a bit confused.
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Also do you still suggest MSFT even if I have two more tries for H1B? It’s lottery man. That’s so unfair. Anyway what if Zillow bumps up stocks to 160k?
      May 31
    • Amazon
      Maxter

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      Maxtermore
      If Zillow bumps up then go with them. The current offer is pretty good, don’t get me wrong. Also their office is in an awesome location in Seattle but I have never heard Zillow conveniently relocating anyone to Canada (but I maybe wrong). Probably worth checking with Zillow recruitment.
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      You’re right. I guess I better consider Microsoft to be on safe side. I know Zillow’s pay is good but if they won’t relocate then I totally will lose a job.
      May 31
  • Amazon / Product MDMA90
    MSFT- Visa situation is dire and getting h1b is your priorities. Few thousands here and there will not help.
    May 31 3
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      True that! I have an onsite interview with Amazon Alexa. Hoping I would get that. If so I don’t have to worry about pay at the least. The work at Zillow is genuinely good, plus it’s ML Engineer position but have to leave the offer just because of H1B. I hate this.
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      By the way, thanks for your advice @MDMA90
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Also do you still suggest MSFT even if I have two more tries for H1B? It’s lottery man. That’s so unfair. Anyway what if Zillow bumps up stocks to 160k?
      May 31
  • Zillow Group UNSX11
    Zillow does have a small office in Vancouver, and they did allow relocation to Canada for my friend early this year. He was on his 3rd try and had to prepare for the worst case (luckily he got it this year). He seemed to be the only one that I know of who had this request ever, so our legal team might not be as experienced or helpful if you eventually had to do this.
    Jun 1 4
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Based on your experience, do you suggest taking up Zillow offer or leaving Zillow offer? Cause with Microsoft they would at least send me to Canada or some other country. Would Zillow be sending me to Vancouver in the worst case scenario? What would you suggest?

      I have also asked the recruiter yesterday about the same and told him I can only accept offer if he lets me know about what would Zillow do in the worst case. If he says Zillow would send me to Canada, do you think I could ask him to write that on writing on offer letter?

      Any insights are appreciated.
      Jun 1
    • Zillow Group UNSX11
      If H1B lottery is your major concern, I'd say go with Microsoft. Zillow has a tiny team in Vancouver and I'm not sure if there's even devs in Vancouver office. In case that you didn't get H1b on all attempts and they transfer you to Vancouver, it's very possible to be a shitty experience thereafter. You'll either need to work remotely with the team in Seattle all the time, or you might pick up some unimportant job in Vancouver office. Microsoft would be able to offer you a lot more in Canada, they have multiple offices and tons of positions.
      Jun 1
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Yeah that’s so true! Damn I feel like I’m losing an opportunity with Zillow but I really hope they’d hire me in future if I say no now and take up Microsoft.
      Jun 1
    • Microsoft Mr.X
      In the worst case if you have to work remotely at MS or Z , it would be for around a year or so at max, they could apply for L1 visa for you which doesn’t have a quota
      Jun 5
  • Microsoft / Eng cholical
    Negotiate Microsoft
    May 31 11
    • Microsoft / Eng cholical
      I believe base pay is capped at a certain point at a specific level. You will probably have to negotiate bonus or stocks. I don't know know how h1b works so maybe someone else from Microsoft can explain it. It's discussed on the Microsoft blind a lot
      May 31
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      Oh I see. I hope some Microsoft folks would be able to answer it. Saying that how much more can I ask in stocks? Would Microsoft increase stock amount?
      May 31
    • Microsoft / Eng cholical
      Depends on how much they want you based on hiring manager, recruiter, and interview performance. Good luck!
      Jun 1
    • Microsoft galaxion1
      At least at lower levels (59-62ish probably?) base salary at MSFT is absolutely non-negotiable. They'll woo you with stock and sign on tho
      Jun 1
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      How much more stock do you think I could ask? Reasonable amount.
      Jun 1
  • New / Eng
    Ama B.O

    New Eng

    PRE
    Amazon, Google, Facebook
    Ama B.Omore
    How does it work with the 50K sign-on bonus that is "over 2 years"?
    Jun 3 1
    • Oracle techlord12
      You get 25k the first year and 25k the next year again.
      Jun 3
  • Google zILa60
    Most complete post I have seen!
    May 31 1
    • Oracle YUcb24
      OP
      What would you suggest?
      May 31

Salary
Comparison

    Real time salary information from verified employees