PIP

Amazon aHKH64
Aug 2, 2018 56 Comments

I was put in PIP.
Last minute, my manager added that on top of my PIP deliverables I have to keep doing my normal job, meaning that I have to deliver the other responsibilities I have normally in my role.
I’m quite confused since I don’t understand how is this measured or how can I prove that I succeeded or not. Urgent advice please!!!

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TOP 56 Comments
  • Amazon Tazerface
    There are two types of Managers:
    A) a leaders who will inform you that you are underperforming, and put a plan to work with you to accomplish it.
    B) a boss, all he/she is doing is looking after themselves. All of the sudden you find yourself dragged to PIP. Do they care? No. Do they have a plan in place for you to help you succeed? No. Do they want you to succeed? No. I call this type of manager ASSHOLE.
    My two cents, go over the PIP deliverable, and question everything make sure to include HR. Also ask for a mentor, and daily/weekly feedback from this moron so you can cover yourself.
    On the side, start looking for external alternatives.

    Last, confidence is key. Don't let this moron screw up with your confidence.

    Good luck OP .
    Aug 2, 20185
    • Amazon 123raj
      Ask for daily feedback from manager? Lol that's what he asks me 😂
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Amazon ifn996
      How do you not let the asshole ruin your confidence?
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Nvidia Dwight Die
      Be aware that your manager/boss might not communicate to you on a day by day basis. They would avoid you until the set date for your status meeting/update.

      They just want to see if you delivered it or not, nothing else, regardless of how many hours you put in.

      99.5 things you did well, 0.5 you did not do well, you still are labeled not delivered. They can say 100 has been agreed was the minimum you need to deliver. You did not make it.
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Amazon aHKH64
      OP
      Awesome reply, thanks so much. My confidence is ruined, I’ve set myself the goal of writing everything that has happened to me in Amazon, because it’s a dream that transformed into the worst nightmare I’ve ever had. I’m trying to hold tight, but the ride seems bumpy and I need to arm myself, so any advice is really welcome! Thanks!!
      Aug 3, 2018
    • New ralphi
      I really hope we are talking about one and the same ASSHOLE here:)
      As a past amazon employee, I can easily say this comment is spot on! My manager got personal with me and from somewhere I just got to know he’s about to document my “dev plan”. I immediately resigned (which some can argue, may be an emotionally charged decision) as I didn’t want to go through that bullshit. I tried everything possible, changing my role, changing my team within same role, talking with HR, transferring to different country. What I didn’t know all my efforts are going against me as my manager was giving bad feedback about me and ruining my reputation that I built with real hard work. All because I questioned some of his decision and he didn’t like it. Amazon has given your immediate manager immense power. Nothing, absolutely nothing that you can do without getting pass him/her. This is not as open culture as described by “marketing” (I’ll rate google much better place to work in that sense). If you ever go to HR and say anything negative about your manager, start counting your days!
      Apr 18
  • Vistaprint / EngWeewoo
    Start preparing for another job search
    Aug 2, 20180
  • Citrix Systems ujrott
    Start looking for another job.

    PIPs are just a protection for the company to ensure that when you are done and they fire you that you cannot come back and sue.

    Your company may have "escalation policies" for fighting the PIP but again, these are there to protect the company from lawsuits.
    Aug 2, 20180
  • New B57glw
    What team? Engineering role? Location?
    Aug 2, 20181
    • Gen!x / Eng
      ixptl12

      Gen!xEng

      PRE
      startups, JPMorgan Chase
      BIO
      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      ixptl12more
      Also include your phone number and SSN?!

      #DF?!
      Aug 2, 2018
  • Cadence Life2
    Don't loose heart. Not working for Amazon is not the end of the world. Start preparing leetcode and system design. You will reach a much happier place soon
    Aug 2, 20180
  • Amazon 123raj
    Yeah that sucks. It's meant to fail ..sorry.
    Also heard once in dev u can never apply to amazon again
    Aug 2, 20182
    • Amazon 786FRY
      If you leave in bad standing. If he beat the pip and went into good standing then he could apply again
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Amazon 123raj
      But by design it's meant to end in bad standing
      Aug 2, 2018
  • Oracle mickjogger
    Most managers use PIP ineffectively for you and damage your career permanently rather than 'improve' a subjective score. Keep networking and building your skill and social muscles. Don't get into any arguments. Good luck!
    Aug 2, 20184
    • Cadence Life2
      How is it damaged permanently ? You can't apply to that company but you can elsewhere.
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Oracle mickjogger
      Getting a door shut in one company, and having several of your peers know you were on PIP would damage your career permanently. It's a small world, you'll realize later in your career. You could hide it, but the injury is always there.
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Cadence Life2
      Hmmm.... That seems do unfair . I know several ppl who are fired and are not jobless
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Oracle mickjogger
      Yes! I've seen people on PIP progress very well in other places from following some on LinkedIn. It only reflects badly on the environment where they were put on PIP! Yet, you never know 10 years down the line, one of the people from that environment, and who has a decade-old impression of you, is behind the scenes at a job you're applying for. Good thing is, you may be better off avoiding that job!
      Aug 2, 2018
  • LinkedIn SwankyOcea
    Hm PIP usually comes with clear measurable goals.. Was it not for yours?
    Aug 2, 20182
    • Amazon aHKH64
      OP
      Well then I have this goal of doing all my job, that’s my point, how do I measure it?
      Aug 2, 2018
    • LinkedIn SwankyOcea
      If it’s not listed explicitly then you can bring it to your manager. Depending what kind of job you’re doing. I would come up with a list of things that you could count when doing your job e.g. solve x% of issues escalated, X amount of tickets, x% of SLA met etc
      Aug 2, 2018
  • Walmart.com Happy?
    Sorry man. I just finished and failed a PIP. Thankfully have another offer for lower pay. Sucks to manage all that with H1B . In my case the pip was a fair process though. Measurable goals with a very supportive boss. I understand that it is very rare though.
    Aug 2, 20180
  • Zillow Group GilFoyle1
    Just leave- save some face. It’s like a relationship- imagine the other party saying their just not into you anymore, you hopefully wouldn’t stick around then. So why now?

    Lots of other companies that have awesome people, trying to solve cool problems, and have career growth. Look into them.
    Aug 2, 20186
    • Amazon 123raj
      Leaving on dev list is ban forever
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Zillow Group GilFoyle1
      People take shit so personally. There are more companies out there that aren’t Amazon......

      + they are the ones who put the no confidence vote, being fired probably also puts this dude on that list as well
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Amazon 123raj
      Agreed abt the other companies being there part.
      What do u mean by no confidence vote? Not sure
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Zillow Group GilFoyle1
      Like the company has put this person on a list because of their performance, that is a display by the company that the confidence in that person to perform their duties has diminished
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Amazon 123raj
      Lol so u r on side of the company or the employee ..cant tell 😁
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Zillow Group GilFoyle1
      I’m not on anyone’s side...but why work at a company that efficiently put you on a potential fire list. Doesn’t make sense to me, but that’s just my opinion.
      Aug 2, 2018
  • Cisco gvvka
    Are PIPs meant to fire underperformers in a polished manner ? Or
    Are they really meant to help the employee? Or
    Is it both based on the company and team and manager and so on ?
    Aug 2, 20182
    • Compass / Eng
      FUPayMe

      CompassEng

      PRE
      Google
      FUPayMemore
      Option A
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Amazon 123raj
      A
      Aug 2, 2018
  • Amazon / Biz DevLE Gang
    Designed to cut heads. Manager does not care about you, unfortunately.
    Aug 2, 20180
  • Axon / Mgmt
    cargsyvze

    AxonMgmt

    PRE
    Axon, Uber, Facebook
    cargsyvzemore
    Hope OP is feeling better now
    Feb 182
    • Amazon aHKH64
      OP
      OP is happy in a new company with an amazing manager and very nice coworkers! Thanks ❤️
      Feb 19
    • Amazon toutd
      OP I am on L1-b and going through this. Any advice for me?
      Mar 24
  • Compass / Eng
    FUPayMe

    CompassEng

    PRE
    Google
    FUPayMemore
    Start interviewing.
    Aug 2, 20182
    • Citibank B8d67zj03
      Compass in New York?
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Compass / Eng
      FUPayMe

      CompassEng

      PRE
      Google
      FUPayMemore
      Sure
      Aug 2, 2018
  • Amazon / EngTroll Food
    Amazon has a quota for putting people into pivot and percent of them had to fail. Other companies are not always like this.

    If you are getting better you have to be good enough so you are better than the next unlucky guy. It is a zero sum game, remember that.

    If your manager pile on additional ambiguous stuff, it sounds like he wants to make sure you fail. If he is gone half way he might be in pip himself. Good luck to you, but don't expect much.

    Interview now, don't wait till you are out the door. The chance is high and it is not worth it.
    Aug 2, 20182
    • Amazon 123raj
      Gone halfway might be in pip himself - means ?
      Aug 2, 2018
    • Amazon / EngTroll Food
      Means he might throw people under the bus
      Aug 2, 2018
  • Citibank B8d67zj03
    How long have u been in Amazon?
    Aug 2, 20180
  • New / MgmtrdqI03
    Generally speaking, a PIP is put in place because one is not meeting expectations. The additional deliverables are probably things you should have been doing in the first place, but weren't. A good manager should be able to walk you through how this needs to be measured; though a good manager should have had clear conversations with you well before you were put on a PIP. If you really want to succeed, ask them for clarification, and tell them you want to pass this PIP, but would like their assistance in measuring and ensuring you are on the right track.
    Aug 2, 20182
    • Amazon aHKH64
      OP
      I’m in a weird situation because once I got into the Pivot, they changed my manager. I don’t think he cares at all about me succeeding, moreover don’t think he or my skip wants me to stay
      Aug 2, 2018
    • New / MgmtrdqI03
      That sounds like a tough situation - I've fought for people to help them on their PIPs when my boss was ready to write them off (and that person not only passed his PIP but is still at that company three years later, doing great). Changing managers during a PIP is really shitty - and the new manager might have no input on your capabilities or desire to succeed. Honestly, have a sit down and tell him you want to succeed - and ask for help or updates. If that talk doesn't seem promising, then you are probably right and have a manager who doesn't care if you make it, which would be unfortunate, but happens.
      Aug 2, 2018
  • Quantcast iejdy
    Hope to see you soon in an offer evaluation thread! Good luck in job search
    Aug 2, 20180
  • Carta Sjerw
    If a manager doesn’t like you than there is no way you are going to win. They will just make stupid excuses.
    Dec 4, 20180
  • PayPal
    outOfBound

    PayPal

    PRE
    Yahoo, eBay
    BIO
    Who cares
    outOfBoundmore
    Trying to put myself in your shoe. I would never work for a team where they won’t value me.
    Jan 313
    • Walmart.com PIPperjack
      Unless nobody else values you either. Happens to me everyday
      Jan 31
    • Amazon aHKH64
      OP
      After all the suffering, I’ve moved companies. Trying to understand what I went through will be hard, because I lived hell for more than 6 months...
      Jan 31
    • Walmart.com PIPperjack
      You should be proud of yourself. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger
      Feb 1
  • Google / EngnwKF08
    Start looking for other jobs. Its sad that amazon does this to its employees.
    Aug 2, 20181
    • Oracle mickjogger
      It's a strategic operating model used at many companies. Employee friendly companies don't last too long generally if you look at history!
      Aug 2, 2018
  • PayPal
    outOfBound

    PayPal

    PRE
    Yahoo, eBay
    BIO
    Who cares
    outOfBoundmore
    Wow that’s deep.
    Feb 60

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