Women in Tech

Peer design reviews

Amazon / Eng
G@ngnam

AmazonEng

PRE
Amazon
BIO
Working in India
G@ngnammore
Dec 27, 2018

I have a girl in my team who is aiming for a promotion and for that she has been assigned a low level design. She keeps coming to me or senior sde (a lot biased towards her) daily to review her design on white board without any documentation. How should I handle this situation? Isn't this too much of hand holding which might reflect in her feedback as well?

comments

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  • Uber taxify
    Being female is irrelevant here
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Google / Other
    snidely

    GoogleOther

    BIO
    Flagged by the community
    snidelymore
    "I have a girl on my team" Probably you have a woman on your team.
    Dec 27, 20185
    • Facebook
      Tardy

      Facebook

      BIO
      .
      Tardymore
      Dunno. "I have a man on my team" vs "I have a guy on my team"
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Intel UGeJ58
      Man and guy are actually interchangeable. See how interchangeable girl and woman is the next time you are talking in public about your wife.
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Amazon / Engt68yey
      There's that boy on my team ...
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Google
      w9wSRh

      Google

      PRE
      Microsoft
      w9wSRhmore
      What's wrong with boy?
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Airbnb
      jim.hodlen

      Airbnb

      BIO
      kindly doing the needful
      jim.hodlenmore
      > you’re not a man, you’re a dude
      Dec 27, 2018
  • Facebook
    Tardy

    Facebook

    BIO
    .
    Tardymore
    What's the point of having coworkers if you can't spend ten minutes a day discussing your work and getting ideas and feedback?
    Dec 27, 20185
    • Facebook noogler7
      While this is ideal, there are many cocky co-workers. Countless time i experienced this at Facebook, where your teammate spends like 15 mins for a discussion, but convey to manager spending an hour - just for matter of exaggeration or lack of proper time management (certainly in a tech-dive talk, I don’t expect my colleague to share about childcare expense when I didn’t even have a kid!)
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      G@ngnam

      AmazonEng

      PRE
      Amazon
      BIO
      Working in India
      G@ngnammore
      OP
      The discussions often span more than 30 minutes which make me cranky and feels like I should do the design instead. I'm also not sure how to communicate this to my manager and get the review counted and recognized by my boss.
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Salesforce skfjtiqlxj
      ^ my advice is that it’s not about you, it’s about her. So help her, don’t make it about you
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Intel rtl
      Agree with OP...seems very needy for current position, let alone a higher one
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Amazon Jеff Bezоs
      True, but if she needs so much handholding, she’s not ready for the next level.
      Dec 29, 2018
  • Salesforce skfjtiqlxj
    Software is a team sport and people have different ways of executing on an assignment. Some need to sit in a room alone while others need to leverage others. I think she can be measured at the end by her execution rather too much in how she got there.
    Dec 27, 20181
    • Amazon Jеff Bezоs
      It’s a team sport, but if she’s weak at design and relies on others to do the designs for her under the guise of “getting feedback”, then she’s just an entry-level implementer. She’s not ready to be promoted and to lead projects on her own.
      Dec 29, 2018
  • Amazon LimpDave
    Her being female seems irrelevant. As a more experienced SDE you should be developing the best. Help her with the design without handholding. Discuss trade offs, alternatives, complexity, scalability, etc. White boarding and design discussions are a core part of SDE3 role and higher. It means people in your org respect you for your tech insight and it’s a great way to demonstrate influence.
    Dec 27, 20182
    • Amazon / Eng
      G@ngnam

      AmazonEng

      PRE
      Amazon
      BIO
      Working in India
      G@ngnammore
      OP
      Understood your view point, even I'm of the opinion that white boarding is better than asking peer to create diagrams everytime. However, I also want to ensure that my peers can work independently and gain confidence to operate at next level and the tough part is where to draw the line of discussion. Thanks for the advise
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Amazon Jеff Bezоs
      Hire and develop the best doesn’t mean promoting people before they’re ready.
      Dec 29, 2018
  • Amazon sde007
    OP, mentioning female and posting this in women in tech shows that you’re already biased and will not be supporting her promotion.

    Give her this feedback now rather in promotion feedback. She might be thinking this is normal process as nobody mentioned anything. Mentor and guide her to achieve goals.
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Amazon doubledow
    Why did you have to include the fact the engineer is female? The fact that you felt the need to include that and refer to the engineer as a “girl” speaks to the fact that you are already biased and should really spend time in front of the mirror exploring your chauvinistic attitude before worrying the engineers design skills.
    Dec 27, 20182
    • Intel rtl
      Because a male would be on PIP for doing the same
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Amazon doubledow
      Lol, I love male engineers that are threatened by the fact that most female engineers are better at their job than you are.

      Cheers mate, made my day!
      Dec 29, 2018
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Google
      w9wSRh

      Google

      PRE
      Microsoft
      w9wSRhmore
      That's probably how I'd sum up what happened to me. Except the person wasn't a girl. He was a manipulative, political, two faced colleague, who has no coding skills, but can "lead a team", and his "special skills" was to be always one foot up to take credit for other peoples' works.
      Dec 27, 2018
  • Apple hMWF54
    You are learning how design process work
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Is she Indian?
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Google
    Sb8QV2

    Google

    PRE
    Microsoft
    Sb8QV2more
    Female or not, you shouldn't hand hold someone incapable just so that they get a promotion.
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Splunk frcdw
    Someone is insecure about the promotion and more so because the human being is a female.

    Grow up and help others to grow.
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Airbnb
    jim.hodlen

    Airbnb

    BIO
    kindly doing the needful
    jim.hodlenmore
    don’t be a dick OP, kindly do the needful
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Amazon kmcY20
    Your primary concerns seem to be:

    1) use of your time. If you don't think she should be taking so much of your time, decline and tell her why. If you're not sure whether it's an okay use of your time, get input from a colleague or your manager.

    2) whether it's a good demonstration of promo readiness. Either you have the experience to calibrate her performance based on how much help she's getting or you're not. It sounds like you're not sure. Ask someone who may have more SDE promotion experience for input.

    I've seen this situation, and people experienced with promos in that org will have a good sense of whether the help is in line with the org's promo bar.
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Amazon pidhfihele
    What's so special about her design that she needs daily reviews and why doesn't she have a formal design review meeting like everyone else does. Getting ripped to shreds and taking it like a man is part of the learning process...
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Google
    Sb8QV2

    Google

    PRE
    Microsoft
    Sb8QV2more
    If the entire reason for this is promotion, do not hand hold her and instead encourage to put it down on some doc on her own.

    Ask yourself, will the organization benefit by promoting her?
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Facebook
      Tardy

      Facebook

      BIO
      .
      Tardymore
      :(
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Google JohnMcPop2
      Flagging.

      Derogatory towards women.
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Amazon krackjax
      Flagging.

      Sexist towards men. 😭
      Dec 27, 2018
  • Microsoft
    PopUpVideo

    Microsoft

    PRE
    Amazon
    PopUpVideomore
    This process just sounds like Lean UX Design. Using that method, designers are supposed to consult with devs every day until the design is complete. You could try asking her what method she is using and clarify how much time it will take. Come to a mutually acceptable amount of time ahead of time and plan your week.

    It shouldn’t last indefinitely and it allows you to help determine the direction of the design so that it is more likely to be adopted.

    Bad news though...If you’re not already doing this at Amazon, it’s been being done at Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and every startup that has design resources for 5+ years. It’s the new collaborative future...
    Jan 10
  • Amazon -kakarot-
    If she has to come over for discussions multiple times probably you are not doing it right.
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Google
    w9wSRh

    Google

    PRE
    Microsoft
    w9wSRhmore
    Wtf is with 'why do you say it's girl' comments. For all you know the OP used it without any connotation attached to it, as a matter of fact, e.g. "someone who joined 6 months back".

    Why don't you ignore this if you are not prejudiced yourself?
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Amazon BB!
    Guide her by asking for documentation. Give reasons why. Documentation helps others understand her decisions and provide stronger feedback. Documentation can be basis of design doc. Documentation will be helpful to encourage rest of team to buy in to her design. Documentation is necessary to layout what decisions were made and why for future contributors to the project.

    This is an opportunity for you as a more senior person to mentor her so she becomes better.
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Oracle / Datakq2Il8
    Set time expectations with her. If you're not sure how long is good to spend working on it together, ask your manager/lead, it's their job to guide you
    Dec 27, 20180
  • Flagged by the community.

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