Question for those who lost their Job at Microsoft in 2008 great recession

Cisco / Eng
O-Hai-Jony

Cisco Eng

BIO
hoe
O-Hai-Jonymore
Oct 5 223 Comments

Hello, I'm on the cusp of deciding which company I will work for. I am on the verge of deciding between: Military Engineering Job, A Firmware Engineering Job In France, and a Microsoft offer. I have been doing research into potentially deciding to Go back to Microsoft (I've worked there before) however I was in Highschool during the Great recession.

Can anyone give me a list of warnings and lessons learned that they wish the would have known before the Bubble burst in 2008? Should I go to Microsoft KNOWING that the Bubble is beginning to burst.

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TOP 223 Comments
  • Oracle Sockets
    If you know when the bubble is going to burst you would not need to worry since you will make a killing on shorting stocks, no?
    Oct 5 19
    • Upstart FUmoni
      All the comments shitting on OP sound triggered. As if knowing it's difficult to call a recession is better than trying to hedge against the possibility with signals from indicators. Go back to losing money on Robinhood.
      Oct 9
    • Amazon / Eng AMZNBucks
      Yo how's life at Upstart? I was interviewing at their cbus office
      Oct 9
    • Upstart FUmoni
      It's a good company, I'd recommend. Not a hypergrowth focused company but solid fundamentals. Pay should be competitive especially for cbus.
      Oct 9
    • Amazon / Eng AMZNBucks
      I was curious on the pay bands actually, especially for junior devs ~ 2 YOE. I withdrew from the onsite because I got pretty much a max offer for my level @ Amazon, and wanted to make the move to FANG, but really liked the company. (I was just burnt out from interviewing)

      Also are all the dev teams using rails?
      Oct 9
    • Upstart Lolmonies
      Not gonna get FANG money but pretty good considering a startup. Plus fwiw, options could be worth something. Most of the devs write in rails but there's some python. Also a react shop.
      Oct 9
  • Microsoft cptlsm
    Microsoft is probably the safest bet out there.
    Oct 5 13
    • AT&T
      random25

      AT&T

      PRE
      AT&T
      random25more
      Google is safest but hiring bar is highest among FAANG
      Oct 9
    • Accenture Subtilis
      @MgrRevil, that sort of attrition policy is expecting the "bottom 10% of performers" to perform worse than new joiners, which may not be the case
      Oct 9
    • Twitch / Cust. Srv. dreamful
      Google is definitely not safest. Google in its simplest form is an ad agency, perhaps the largest ad agency in the world. Despite what it likes to call itself (tech, machine learning, innovation, etc), at its core, it's an ad platform: ads generate 95 percent plus of Google's revenue.

      In an economic downturn, the global ads business will get impacted. Now, this is offset by the fact that Google has a huge cash balance that can probably weather a storm, but the easy money that used to flood in shouldn't be coming in at nearly the same rate. And how that impacts potential layoffs is uncertain.

      Msft on the other hand makes most of its money on enterprise customers. Hard to say how that would be impacted as people lose jobs during a recession and companies scale down. But fwiw, I think it will be hit less hard than ads
      Oct 9
    • GrubHub grubby
      Twitch, selling ads is not what an ad agency does 😂. And before you pull out vague theories about how demand for ads behaves during a recession, look at the revenue charts for Google for 2008 - and also how many people they laid off then.
      Oct 9
    • Twitch / Cust. Srv. dreamful
      Dude.... Google in 2008 was a small company that was literally distrusting a space.

      Look at Google today with 95 percent of its revenue coming from ads as one of the largest companies in the world by market cap

      It's 2 completely different cases. You're comparing apples to oranges if you want to see how Google did in 08. A better comparison would be to see what a top investment bank like Goldman performed during 08
      Oct 10
  • Uber
    budd

    Uber

    PRE
    Foursquare, Microsoft
    buddmore
    I worked at Microsoft in 2008.

    My thoughts:
    - FTEs (and CSGs) were mostly isolated from the economic downturn. Sure.... maybe base salary increases were lower... but there weren’t mass layoffs.
    - Applying for a job there was tough. I remember Waterloo students, for example, were lucky that their school had a special program that reserved internship spots for them. They were amongst the very few interns taken at that time.
    - Microsoft in 2008 isn’t Microsoft in 2019. Just because they didn’t let people go then doesn’t mean they won’t now. Perhaps they use the opportunity to clean house. Ya just don’t know.
    Oct 5 15
    • Symantec spy hunter
      Wasn’t at Microsoft but I would say that Microsoft is a much stronger company due to Azure than they were then. A downturn for Microsoft would cause market consolidation, which would benefit them, decrease the cost of labor, and allow them to make cheaper acquisitions. They would be a safe harbor relative to the rest of tech
      Oct 8
    • Gartner shenl0ng
      Was waiting for this. Microsoft of 2019 is nothing like Microsoft of 2008. I would feel safer there than any other place I can conjure.

      Azure isn't just going to grind to halt, downturn or not.
      Oct 8
    • GitHub huhg
      > - Microsoft in 2008 isn’t Microsoft in 2019. Just because they didn’t let people go then doesn’t mean they won’t now. Perhaps they use the opportunity to clean house. Ya just don’t know.

      This 👆🏽 here is the most important point. I can tell you that GitHub (a MSFT company) will definitely clean house if things go down. And my guess is that the same will happen everywhere else as well.
      Oct 8
    • Microsoft goddamnit
      As I mentioned earlier, due to the downturn that started in 2008, Microsoft had 3 rounds of layoffs starting in May 2009, and at least the first two rounds hit engineering. I know people who were laid off in the first two rounds. The third round may have still hit engineering - I’m not sure, but AFAIK, my org was not hit in the 3rd round.
      Supposedly, we’d already cut “deep enough”.
      Oct 8
    • GitHub ™️gh
      > GitHub will definitely clean house

      Well, yeah but GitHub already aggressively fires people for no real reason so that's a given.
      Oct 8
  • Microsoft justanymph
    Knowing the bubble is beginning to burst? How do you know this? CNN?
    Oct 5 9
    • Fitbit 0x56BD
      Nobody even knows if it will burst. Those “trends” researchers have 10% hit rates at best, lol. They’re just manipulating sentiment to make money, and it works every damn time.
      Oct 7
    • Twitch / Cust. Srv. dreamful
      1. Valuation appears to have peaked in tech as high profile ipos have occurred and shareholders have lost large amounts of capital. We work, Uber lyft, slack, etc. In an industry driven by valuation growth, this is a very bad sign

      2. Lots of macro headwinds, including us China trade relationships. Recent debacles with NBA and blizzard don't help. Consumer and workplace sentiments are declining, meaning likelihood of decreased investments going forward, which act as self fulfilling prophecy

      3. Most importantly, Competition is intensifying without any breakthrough 0 to 1 tech improvements. At twitch, back in the days, we were competing in small pools against hitbox, azubu, etc, but everyone did their own things. Netflix did movies on demand, youtube did short form content on demand, Amazon sold things, Google did search, fb did social media.

      But now, the winners of the previous tech races are now pitting against each other. YouTube moved into live streaming, as did fb. Fb is now doing e-commerce like amazon. YouTube, while failing to do so, is now trying to become a Netflix with yt TV, as is Amazon videos. Heck, even twitch is launching original content. All of the tech behemoths are now trying to copy each other and race to the end faster, which means increased competition at an unprescedented scale. And that scares the shit out of me.

      Throw in global competition from players like tencent, bytedance, and alibaba, all competing for the same capital resources and engineering resources, without putting out truly revolutionary products, to me at least, spells disaster.

      In other words, I feel like what we're going through is exactly what Wallstreet went through in 2007. Wallstreet was the hot shit back then because from 2002 to 2006, the industry truly innovated and created new ways to take on leverage and scale that nobody had conceived of before. However, once growth stalled and when competition intensified as everyone tried to get into the same space and push margins down, competition forced players to cut corners to survive. And in a similar way, I feel like the same mentality is applied to silicon valley today

      Holy shit this was a long rant.

      Tldr, I don't feel good about this
      Oct 9
    • Fitbit 0x56BD
      I assume you’re relatively new to the industry, as what you’re describing has been going on forever. An innovator enters the scene, and then everyone copies it and competition rises.

      Your employer started the streaming revolution, everyone jumped on it. Uber started the gig economy, everyone jumped. Snap started the ephemeral sharing game, everyone jumped on it. YouTube started online nonporn videos, everyone jumped on it.

      These are signs of healthy models, not doom.
      Oct 10
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      All of the Bulls and Bears are showing. I like it. I'm just SPOOKED.
      Oct 10
    • Fitbit 0x56BD
      I’m neither, I just have been around long enough to know that fearmongering is just the standard now that we’ve been burned. Honestly it’s good and keeps most of us honest (except WeWork lool), but sometimes the news gets tiring. Google “tech bubble” and note a different analyst predicting a crash every year since 2009.
      Oct 10
  • New JxzE37
    I worked in Microsoft in 2009 and was able to chat with some fairly high up people and even with Bill playing a big role and wanting to not do any layoffs the board pushed for the layoffs. These days Satya and Amy have no qualms and infact there are mini layoffs every year in Microsoft nowadays that you don't hear about. I expect to see a reasonable number let go when a recession hits and as a new fairly junior hire your severance will be on the lower end.
    If you are impacted then it is better if it is sudden and quick. Otherwise the environment deteriorates if people know it is coming but takes a few months or more. In such an environment people turn on each and start fighting for the scraps. Maybe leadership even lets it fester intentionally so they can increase the 'voluntary' attrition and not pay severance. In this case even if your are spared the work environment will be very bad. If you anticipate a recession and are risk averse I would take the most stable offer like the military.
    Oct 5 12
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      Amy hood Got rid of the Signature event for the interns. I mean, say what you want, the sig events is THE recruiting tool. O well. Also, I wasnt going contracting. I was going straight up Federal as a military civilian.
      Oct 9
    • SAP
      Man

      SAP

      BIO
      F
      Manmore
      So, Civil Servant? That's poverty-level salary.
      Oct 9
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      Lol 124k? Poverty level? The maximum pay is 188k though.
      Oct 9
    • New / Mgmt lHAU26
      There’s a lot to get to 124k as a GS. You don’t get to negotiate your grade or what step you are. It gets set and it will max out are 15 and if you don’t qualify for the next grade then too bad. But on the good side it’s a lot more stable and there is a lot going for it down the road. It is too bad they no longer have their pension and you have to stick with the TSP.
      Oct 10
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      I'm being offered non competitive advancement which means automatic yearly pay increases until GS 13 step10. Jumping two pay bands since I'm an engineer. GS 14 and 15 are manager/director pay bands. With a wife, that's more than enough if she is working too... after that its marginal increases yearly with respect to the cost of living.
      Oct 12
  • Microsoft iamletired
    What bubble? Theres nothing remotely like the housing bubble going on now so comparisons to 2008 aren't going to be useful.
    Oct 7 8
    • Microsoft iamletired
      I was not at Microsoft at the time. Just generally. Why do you think this is anything like 2001 or 2008? What makes you think that?
      Oct 7
    • Amazon / Eng KHCr70
      Probably reading blind lol
      Oct 8
    • Uber vquL67
      That’s what they were saying in the exuberance of 2007 too before it blew up. It’s really hard to predict recessions and even those who successfully do only do it with a short lead. You most likely will only know if there was a recession looking back. We might even be in one as we speak. Or not.
      Oct 8
    • Microsoft iamletired
      In 2007 most people were loudly talking about how it was a bubble but that they were smart enough to get out in time. They weren't.

      Agree you can't predict recessions. But OP isn't talking about a recession, they are talking about some sort of mega-bubble.
      Oct 8
    • Uber vquL67
      We might even be in a mega bubble. Or not
      Oct 8
  • Microsoft / Eng HINs46
    Stop worrying about such stupid questions and LC. If Microsoft ever lay you off, take severance get a new job.

    In other words, you earn a job, not beg for one.
    Oct 6 1
    • State Farm sweeeeee
      How much is severance usually?
      Oct 10
  • Oracle dnbhzc
    I was in the layoff at Microsoft in 2009 August. At that time I just joined Microsoft from college and had no idea which team was good and what to look out for. I had offers from multiple teams but choose a really bad team/group. Azure is big, but there will some teams that might be impacted, so make sure you pick a team that Microsoft really needs from business point of view.
    Oct 5 6
    • Cisco / Eng
      O-Hai-Jony

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      O-Hai-Jonymore
      OP
      Also, which team were you hired on to?
      Oct 5
    • Oracle dnbhzc
      I’m sorry I don’t want to give those details
      Oct 5
    • Cisco / Eng
      O-Hai-Jony

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      O-Hai-Jonymore
      OP
      Ok
      Oct 5
    • SAP / IT
      IKRJ67

      SAP IT

      PRE
      PayPal, Barclays Investment Bank, Chevron
      BIO
      Portfolio career person
      IKRJ67more
      Microsoft today is different from the one in 2009 — at least from the outside. Azure is a #2 player and seems unlikely that Microsoft is going to let that slide further.
      Oct 10
    • Zillow Group sofaking
      Also, Satya Nadella is a guy who knows what’s up. I would not take him lightly.
      Oct 11
  • Google fucklifeme
    Increase your work capacity, don’t worry about getting laid of, if you are competitive, you won’t be in the list, or if so, you will be able to find other jobs, I wouldn’t worry, and if it really happens, just go back home and play video games, take advantage of social security and don’t give a fuck, I don’t know why we need to live so intensively, just pick whatever work environment makes you happy
    Oct 7 5
    • Cisco NnMk28
      curious. Do you have mortgage and a family to take care of?
      Oct 7
    • Google fucklifeme
      Yes, and if that happens, we are all screwed, then why it matters, let the politicians resolve it
      Oct 7
    • Amazon max9chars
      ^ what's with the poetry. Your rant is full of phrases ending with commas , no periods. Wtf?
      Oct 8
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      Hes on Amazon's new Poet team. Jeff Bezos is trying out something new this time.
      Oct 9
    • Amazon azbxcy
      Kindle poet and don’t know it.
      Oct 9
  • SAP / IT gtST12
    Similar opinion here, but I’m a bit more negative as I believe this coming recession is not comparable to 2008, it’s more likely the same level as 1929. The high salaries of software people since 2008 were largely based on the ridiculous QE from fed, as capital didn’t find anywhere else to dump their nearly free money, can’t imagine what might happen when the bubble bursts. Find a safe job? Ford’s car technician believed their job was super safe back in 1929 :(
    Oct 9 20
    • Microsoft i84687
      iam you must apply a little critical thinking my friend. stop believing everything they tell you on tv or in academia. do a little research on the fed topic. information you uncover will suprise you. again critical thinking required. if printing money was the way to prosper zimbabwe would be the best place to live. inflation manufactured by crntral banks is hoax designed to rob people of honestly earned money and transfer them to bankers who run the show
      Oct 10
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      >If printing more money was the way to prosper, Zimbabwe would be the best place to live

      Holy shit. I'm over here talking Bout being in a crisis and what not. But I'm not realizing that we already ARE in it. The only thing is, is that, the public hasn't figured it out yet. The sky is falling and once people get wise to it, we are screwed. The fuckin FED just keeps printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing, and printing. Hold on to your fuckin pants everyone. @Iam, it no longer matters what you think. Private or not, the Central bank you trust so much in has placed us in A precious situation. Someone has to pay this debt. Either we go to war and force it into a country like China and make them pay like we did to Germany in the Great wars or we collapse as a global economy. That's the fact. The latter being more likely of an outcome. I cant belive I started this thread asking should i go corporate or federal. In the end, it wont matter.
      Oct 10
    • Microsoft iamletired
      I assure you, I have researched the topic far more than you have. That's how I know you're clueless.
      Oct 10
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      I'll admit i could be wrong about the economy but I sure can make a damn effecient peice of firmware.
      Oct 10
    • Microsoft i84687
      If you would have researched the topic you would at least have a benefit of doubt. Blind faith in central banks is proof that you have either been brainwashed useful idiot (google the term) or you havent researched anything at all
      Oct 10
  • Intel adbC65
    Big companies gain market share in recessions. No better place to be than Microsoft.
    Oct 7 5
    • Cisco / Eng
      O-Hai-Jony

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      O-Hai-Jonymore
      OP
      Market share??? Eli5?
      Oct 7
    • Microsoft i84687
      look up intel microsoft cisco and many others circa 2000 and 2008. market share didnt go so well when many customers disappeared and downsized
      Oct 7
    • Intel adbC65
      Intel increased its market share in data centers from basically 0% to over 90% during this timeframe as Sun and then AMD shrunk dramatically.
      Oct 7
    • Microsoft i84687
      Oct 7
    • Intel adbC65
      That was 6% of our work force. Sun laid off 50% and AMD about 30%.
      Oct 7
  • Microsoft Ramme
    Microsoft under Ballmer and Bill were far safer.

    Under Satya, fuck no. He gives two shits about us. The
    Oct 7 2
    • Gartner shenl0ng
      Yeah, except the COMPANY is almost incomprehensibly stronger under Nadella than it was under Ballmer.

      I suppose the company performed comparably well under Gates, but I can't imagine I would feel remotely safe from the spectre of recession if I worked for Ballmer's Microsoft.
      Oct 8
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      Gates was having Facebook levels of success. Only reason he stepped down was because of the Anti-Trust shit.
      Oct 9
  • Google !Yahoo
    Microsoft has had public layoffs announcements pretty much every year since 2008. The big question is it over yet?
    Oct 7 6
    • Google !Yahoo
      I was one part of one of Microsoft's "layoffs"

      I took my severance and ran - you're pretty spot on, I would disagree on age part, more level and tenue - levels 63-65 with more than 5 years at Microsoft are prime targets, especially with the stock run. I had a couple years with 200% stock awards, which I suspect made me a target as well.
      Oct 7
    • Facebook wzVB27
      Can confirm the lay-off part but don’t agree Microsoft is a good employer. Cheap and backstabbing culture made me so sick when I was there. World is completely different in first tier companies.
      Oct 9
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      @Facebook I know EXACTLY what you mean when you say the Backstabbing part. I was on MTE team. They are all sons of bi.tches. The GM for that team is nothing other than a bonafide slave master. He yells at you as if you are a 4 year old. Managers give you that "look" when you know your time is up. Maybe I shouldnt go.
      Oct 9
    • State Farm sweeeeee
      Wtf??? ^^
      Oct 10
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      @Statefarm I dont want to name names in this chat but, MTE is as cut throat as it gets.
      Oct 10
  • Don’t base major/life decisions on things you can’t control. Make sure you have a decent rainy day fund to cover unexpected situations for say 6 months and work on whatever get you excited the most.
    Oct 8 0
  • Google GMoney 💰
    Join Microsoft, stupid.

    In the next recession, big rich tech companies are going to do cheap acquihires and low ball new engineers.

    They’ll do layoffs but it’ll just be an excuse to let go of low performers with minimal HR paper work vs firing (I worked at a different company in 2008 that did this, many companies did the same). So you don’t need to worry about that unless you plan to be a low performer, (in which case take the government job and leech off our tax dollars you parasite). Meanwhile at msft you’ll be building experience and when the dust settles you can negotiate a job at the next bigger better company.

    Those other two options sound terrible. It’s not even a hard decision, seriously.
    Oct 7 2
    • Microsoft i84687
      maybe and maybe. performance in satyas microsoft is what you manager percieves your impact is which is different than your actual impact. you are also making a huge assumption that markets will rebound like 2009 but its unlikely to happen as fed has already printed trillions via qe just to sustain the markets where they are today. its inlikely to repeat and recession may drag on for years or decades (like japan). the bottom line is that there is overproduction in almost all idustries so op must hedgee according to his skillsets and demand for them in a low economy
      Oct 7
    • Google GMoney 💰
      I remember exactly this convo in 2008.... the end is neigh. That’s what causes the market to tank so I welcome it. I’m cash heavy with aggressively low buy orders outstanding.

      Anyway it’s irrelevant. If there is a macroeconomic downturn everybody is in jeopardy not just MSFT. Govt programs can get shut down too. He’s young, he should be building big tech experience. Those lame govt jobs will always be there, he can go write some mainframe code anytime later.
      Oct 7
  • Apple HJLm53
    FWIW Google was a good place to ride out 2008. There weren’t many layoffs, except maybe recruiters. They even repriced our options near the bottom price , which worked out very well.
    Oct 7 1
    • ForRent / Eng 🌀⛈️
      How did Apple do in 2008 in regards to Layoffs ?
      Oct 9
  • Microsoft Illya
    Don't put all your bags in a job for income purposes, invest in assets (real estate or others) whenever you can.
    Oct 5 5
    • Google godofproto
      That’s not bad advice, but in a general downturn all assets will be pressured. It’s best to be in cash if you think that the recession is coming.
      Oct 7
    • Microsoft sikerro2
      I’m not even sure if USD is a good thing to hold during such an event.
      Oct 7
    • Microsoft / Eng dotoday
      In terms of short term job less you should definitely have cash, not assets, to back up your loss of income.
      Oct 7
    • Microsoft sikerro2
      I’m talking about other forms of cash besides USD. The money they use in the suburbs of the world. Examples: EUR, DEM
      Oct 7
    • Google GfTq22
      What you hold is short duration US treasuries. Period.
      Oct 7
  • Microsoft jugaloo
    In 2008/9 Ballmer said don't worry we are taking the downturn off. Its go go go!
    Then he laid of 10%, stopped raises and promotions for a year and killed other shit like training budget and new hiring.
    I was new and spent a year worried some hippy bean counter was going to rif me.
    Oct 7 3
    • Oracle Sockets
      Hippie and accountant does not go together.
      Oct 7
    • Microsoft jugaloo
      Everyone is seatle falls into the set of people I call hippies.
      Oct 7
    • Deloitte / HR FHAs14
      Big hips and calculators, hmmm.
      Oct 16
  • Expedia Group / Project
    $$PM$$

    Expedia Group Project

    BIO
    Stuff. 'n things.
    $$PM$$more
    I was in Office in 2008, and never had a second thought. Stayed at MSFT until 2011 for a total of 13 years.
    Oct 9 4
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      Why you leave? Better job?
      Oct 10
    • Expedia Group / Project
      $$PM$$

      Expedia Group Project

      BIO
      Stuff. 'n things.
      $$PM$$more
      Got stuck under a crappy manager and stayed too long under him. Super bad morale. Had both an internal and an external opportunity to gtfo and I chose the external oppo. Really glad I got out of the bubble - had to see how software development worked in the real world to appreciate how much kool aid drinking goes on at MSFT.
      Oct 10
    • Cisco / Eng
      DennisNdry

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      DennisNdrymore
      I like satya's Microsoft except for the back stabbing and the Koolaid drinking. Everyone repeats the whole "Growth Mindset" Mantra. It's cult like in many ways. There is a Pleasantvillesque/Stepford Wives/plastic smile nature at Microsoft... I would love to go back but those elements of that company throw me off. Its so...... fake.
      Oct 10
    • Microsoft i84687
      thats the whole reason not too liek satyas msft. too much tribal comeradry and favors patting each other on the back
      Oct 10
  • Microsoft i84687
    In 2007 everyone was partying like its 1999. Lots of bling from management. Lots of unrealistic commitments. Everyone ignored all the warning signs. Then everything imploded lots of people were let go and it was survival mode until the massive fed enduced money print that created an illusion that everything recovered until today. Economy was not allowed to properly reset and upcoming collapse will be epic as it will culminate all fed enduced bubbles 1987, 2000, 2008
    Oct 7 2
    • Cisco / Eng
      O-Hai-Jony

      Cisco Eng

      BIO
      hoe
      O-Hai-Jonymore
      OP
      Dude glad you arrived. Sounds like I should join Federal Job then. I refuse to be on the chopping block of any future Microsoft board. At the end of the day, Government is gone collect taxes. Especially for the U.S military come hell or high water.
      Oct 7
    • Microsoft i84687
      All depends on you skillset and demand for your skillset when everything is reduced to accomodate for falling demand. Bet accordingly
      Oct 7

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