There are two problems:
1. Too many candidates from one particular country. When diversity is not kept people don’t integrate, communicate between their culture only, bring all their relatives, hire only from their country, nothing good. No any country should get more than 10% of H1B or GC.
2. The way India abuses H1B flooding and even selling applications (what is against the US law).
This problem #2 prevents from talented people from another countries get their H1B visas.
Even if we solve problem #2 (say by raising minimal wage) we still should have country cap and don’t allow one country get more than 10% of H1B and GCs.
Bill S386 doesn’t solve any of these issues, should not pass. Instead it will allow Indian H1B abusing companies let their current H1B holders go, and sell another 10 years of H1B to next army of IT refugees. Also if passed non Indian queues will be waiting for several years while Indian applications are processed.
But the bill probably will pass because most of those senators don’t really care about the country. They said they will pass the bill if it will allow to import thousands of NURSES 🤦♂️from overseas. They don’t even think what is wrong with this country, why we cannot provide our own nurses.
So guys from non Indian countries, get ready for the worst 😎
There are two problems:
- Walmart lotsofloveIf Indian born apply for GC right now, he won’t get it in his life time. He has to slave off his ass here still never gets GC but all others get their GC in one year(except China). Don’t you have mercy on those Indians ? Just because people like come up with hypothetical situations on comminution or hiring (if a Indian and other race stand same in interviews I would hire other race rather Indian, I have hired enough people in my life). Let everyone be treated equal or merit based.
“if bill passes, if ROW and Indian apply together , they get GC at same point of time.”
That is actually true. But only if there are an unlimited number of GCs **or** all countries have the same population.
Unfortunately, the number of GCs available each year is very small and India has a massive queue. In a first-come first-serve system with limited resources, a massive group having size > current GCs allocation will end up taking everything.
- @hooli.xyz: That’s true for even Indians who apply fresh with ROW right ? There are people already waiting for years, they get the priority first with irrespective country (mostly waiting is Indians).
I understand the problem it causes to ROW, but is the solution should never be making deserved Indians waiting in queue forever. If it doesn’t bring 100% equality that’s also fine, waiting for life time is cruel in my opinion(again I am not into bill, I am into betterment of GC process)
- All I’m saying is we need something better that the current bill because it causes more problems than solutions.
GC allocation was defined decades ago but today, 140k is nowhere near the optimal size.
The bill by itself is actually fine, but if combined with the ancient GC allocation, it actually breaks things.
It’s like reconfiguring a load balancing system but the load balancer itself is running on 486 machine.
- @lotsoflove Agree that it is cruel to make Indian people to wait >10years and Chinese >5 years. But this bill is stupid that simply hurt rights of ROW by taking their GC and handle to Indians. That is why it should not pass and they need to come up with a better one.Sep 25 2
- If you are not hater and posted for genuine reason - read US immigration history.
Lot of Europeans came in from same countries in masses. So, US should not allow Europeans now for diversity? Why is there a diversity visa? 140k GC max for EB, US population is 330 million!
It simply doesn't make sense to not allow people paying 50-100k taxes not give a GC in name of diversity! There is entire diversity lottery, 50k out of the box.
How is US benefitting by not giving Google L6 Indian GC but give green card to a new grad at no name US company because he/she is from different country?
If consultancy abused H1B so much, why not question USCIS and DOL?
Europeans helped build US so did Indians, US people may be great founders, but leaders always need followers and people who can execute. So many Indian CEOs and all are working for tech future and it keeps US competetive. You just can't have leaders and not enough people to execute idea!
- This is misleading. The same arguments stay for other country if s386 passed.
How is US benefiting by not giving Google L6 non Indian GC but giving green card to a ICC low pay cheater?
If the Indian backlog that ridiculously long, why not try questioning the ICC application flood, before this brute force solution?
You can’t assume the backlog in Indian GC queue are just L6s and CEOs. This is simply statistically not true.Sep 23 13
- It's the job of USCIS to catch fraud if there is fraud happening. They are the ones with investigative power and visa issuing authority.
What you expect, Indians stand outside US embassy and not let consultancy folks enter embassy so they don't get visa?
Department of Labor, DHS, USCIS should do this work. Reject all consultancy visa, why are they not rejecting it?
US likes to take advantage & complain too. US wants cheap labor is fact so they do nothing. They can solve illegal immigration also in minutes but they need low wage workers to work in farms, restaurants so they allow it.
They can't have it both ways, it's hypocrisy.
Harsh reality is US needs cheap workers in any category more than high skilled people & so off the record US government lets everything happen.
US can afford to let Google L6 go but they need that consultancy people to keep their economy running so corporate can earn $$$$, so USCIS is doing nothing much!Sep 23 9
- Also how ridiculous is lottery for H1B, even that is not merit based! FAANG or unicorn people can't get visa but consultancy can get it, 100% luck no hardwork.
No work is happening anywhere, I said in next comment why not merit based than this stupid bill but as I said, harsh reality is US don't give a damn about ROW, merit based etc. As long as some system allows US corporations to earn $$$$, it will not change!Sep 23 6
- Goldman Sachs gACr23I am completely against the idea of abusing the h1b or GC system but I also don't agree on the fact that people who are most eligible (why should this be limited by countries?) simply have to wait for the sake of diversity. This reminds me of SC/ST and other casting/quota system in India where people only cared about where or how you were born than what YOU are..
- Why wouldn’t Indians lobby their own country to split instead of hoping US laws change? Country cap is not a bug. It’s a feature.
- The point of homogeneity of European population came up because proponents of this policy keep harping about diversity. Hence I am asking you to prove that there is any truth to the assertion that keeping India at 7%, but allowing every single small European country have it's own quota achieving the goal of diversity? You are stuck on "homogeneity" but you are deliberately ignoring the entire context of that conversation.
Next, salary comes into play because it is directly tied to contribution. For those who say American system is no charity, sure fair argument. So I am asking which kind of immigrant is more likely to succeed and help America succeed?
Someone with a Business Major from Europe with 80k TC after 5 YOE, or another engineer from India with a 500k TC. I would love to know your answer because it will help me understand your logic.
So it is not about diversity as we have already established (but still happens to be the favorite talking point of the proponents of this policy), then why do you need a per system that keeps more capable, more qualified immigrant out just because they happened to be born on the wrong side of the world? There is a clearly racist undertone to continued existence of a law that was made in the 1800s? That's exactly what Lee Cissna was implying when he said he wanted "diversity" in employment based immigration. How can you not see that, I fail to understand.
I did not accuse you of being racist so please don't play that game. But you must be completely blind to the blatant name calling from Europeans and others towards Indians on these forums.Sep 23 3
- Too many immigrants from a single country shaping up the workforce in US is politically dangerous for the US. Diversity has multiple aspects not just race. They have similar interests that would be at odds to the US interests and in favor of their country (being a singular political entity).
- Politically dangerous? Exactly how? Please explain?
Perhaps again, you guys should read about India. There is no single ethnicity, culture, language, political ideology in India.
As I said, show me a measure of diversity and then prove to me India is any less diverse than the whole of Europe. Till then it is a moot point
- OP please check that there’s a cap against people from one country can not make up more than 15% of immigrants in the USA overall. That takes care of problem #1. The current amendment only targets EB visas. Indians are only 6% of overall immigrants.
On #2 immigrants are individuals and not representative of their place of birth. Soviet era people were welcome to immigrate to the USA despite the Cold War. Whatever Indian companies do or did are to be dealt with those entities, not with immigrants. None think Einstein should not be able to immigrate because he’s from Nazi Germany.
I’m an India born US citizen. I’m sad to see people literally calling for discrimination against us. It’s our immigration policy and we should get rid of place of birth criteria. The merit based is the way to go but that’s a longer fight.
- Steal means what exactly? There’s nothing in the law or spirit that it has to have a country quota. The problem was these were used for replacing Americans.
Limit exceeded is by design as there are 100k+ H1B L1B O1 visas granted every year while only 120k GCs here. H1B with dependent alone exceeds 200k+. So there’s not enough space at all.
- New duzJ30OP@groupon “Steal” means Indian flooding body shops selling the applications to unqualified Indians stole position in H1B queue from talented people from another countries. Some of them applied but did win lottery (because of spamming and flooding), some didn’t even apply expecting low chance to win the lottery.
Anyway, problem #2 is an actual issue to be solved, which bill S386 doesn’t try to solve. Also this problem should give better understanding to Indians where is the army of Indians applied previous years exceeding the limits is coming from.Sep 22 5
- Indians gets 6% of GCs. You forgot the non EB categories.
I’m India born and those are unwanted in the USA. If you make a rule that makes AfAms, who are otherwise equal, unwanted here, you’re going against the existing AfAms too. Asians were banned from immigrating to USA for a good part of American history. That’s something Asians still talk about.
- H1b lottery is a recent thing. A lot of Indians in the queue may not even come through the lottery.
And the lottery system is another American problem. It is used so that low paid nurses are not cut all together from the visas. We should fix that. Again, why is this has to do with an Indian immigrating to the USA? It’s American problem that lobbyists want to protect low cost nursing positions.
- But also S386 is not solution. Believe it or not, Trump's merit based is solution.
Even after S386, a person from India applying GC today will take 14 years! It doesn't make any sense to not implement merit
- @Microsoft family based is different. They are not already in US, paid no taxes or contributed anything to US economy. They are gonna get green card just because someone from their family is here.
On the other hand, H1Bs are in the US, some may have US citizen children, are paying taxes/studied here and contributing to US economy.Sep 24 4
- Airbnb airtimeFix the consultant companies h1b issues, let every green card and h1b application be scrutinized more. Making well deserved candidates wait for decades is not the solution and doing this based on their country of birth is unfair and goes against the US Constitution.
- I was pointing to your statement about 7% "existing for a reason". AirBnB is right that 7% goes against the founding principle of America that all "are created equal".
Oh the constitution also permitted slavery and banned women from voting back in the day. I am guessing you either don't know much about American history or just lack the ability to make logical arguments. Which one is it, I am curious 😀😀
You are somehow arguing for a merit-based system while also supporting an arcane 1800s law that goes totally goes against the premises of the constitution and also against that of a merit-based system. Kudos to you if you somehow make sense to yourself.
Oh did you know that even Trump's merit-based proposal explicitly mentions removal of per-country caps? Perhaps you should educate yourself on that too a little bit.Sep 22 2
- Bloomberg LOL<GO>Nube! These are regular people willing to migrate to these United states by cutting there ties from their country of birth !
They are not part of some grand conspiracy by a country.
You are either white and scared of loosing majority
Some recent hippocratic immigrant who is scared of loosing your privilege
Stop trying to control everything around you and live a life
People who believe every aspect of there lives around them can be control either end up depressed or dead
- Law not created in the 1800s? Backdoor entry?? Invasion of the US by India by sending people on visas? 🙉🙉🙉🙉. What else, are you a believer in alternative facts??
Which country did you come from? Obviously they are not sending the brightest. Perhaps we need to look into that.Sep 23 2
- The law will not do what it claims to do, it will not remove the backlog.
First year 160K people apply for green cards, 140K granted, 20K placed into backlog.
Second year 160K more people apply, 20+120 new green cards granted, 40K are sent to backlog.
Third year again plus 160 minus 140, and the backlog now 60K.
Such mismatch of supply vs. demand is exactly why backlog exists in the first place, and this bill will do literally nothing about it.
Lawmakers should come up with a real solution (points/auction/etc) rather than indulging a dozen of companies to continue spamming the system.
Last time I checked larger part of the backlog is cheap labor that never deserved to have visas. The backlog should be cleared in a way that passes meritable Indians immediately but keeps delaying pseudoconsultants forever.
Giving a free pass to people who gamed the system under excuse of fairness to the legit ones is a shitty way of doing things, and exactly what they wanted.
- Merit-based is totally possible if it's heavily weighed on TC. OP what are you 🚬 ??
Little disclaimer: Indian here (EB1 awaiting GC), don't like this bill, totally love the 50%+ H1B rejection rate, but your argument of diversity is BS. India is already more diverse than the whole of Europe, so WTF subjecting 1.3 billion people to the same cap as 300k from Iceland.
If diversity is so important, then entire EU+Australia should be under one cap, entire Arab world under one, Southern Africa under one, and Latino world under one. Oh, then what do you do about the Nazis that fled to Argentina? 🤔
Maybe it is time to accept that it is not the fault of Indians that our grandparents learnt to stay united despite cultural and religious differences.
- There is something called EB1A.
And you are totally qualified for B, if you are telling the truth. If you got to that level, you should have lots of patents and highly known people vouching for you. If you are telling the truth, then you need to change jobs and negotiate EB1B before accepting offer -- a friend of mine did that. Talk to a good lawyer and be willing to spend some time and money.
I totally know a lot of people are impacted by this. All the more reason why a TC based system is the most rational. Which means, heck yes, Infosys needs to be kicked out and only highest TC people need to be retained.
- This may not pass despite lawmakers agreeing on principle because it disproportionately benefits the same ones who gamed the system. If I were you, I would rather very seriously focus on figuring out EB1. That's a better ROI for advanced career professionals IMO.
- General advice: don't call someone an asshole without even fully reading their posts. I will fully support an immigration system that makes someone like you a top priority.
As much as I will like to see country caps go away, I also realize it is a bill pushed by the same unscrupulous organizations that fucked H1B, then EB2 and now EB1. I know bright and highly motivated scientists who lost decent paying jobs because they couldn't get through H1B lottery. With big tech you can move to Canada or Europe where you can continue to grow your career. But what about Biotech scientists whose entire industry is in the US?
All of that while WITCH took 70% of the visas and sent a whole lot of low-skilled IT workers on wages barely above the prevailing wage (that prevailing wage itself is a joke and a result of labor market manipulation by, ahem, WITCH). What value are they adding to this society except for suppressing wages and creating negativity for all H1Bs? What talent are they bringing on H1B or EB1C? Why should they even be in the line for GC?
Now back to you. I will seriously suggest you look into EB1B. EB1A can be a hit or miss with arbitrarily defined criteria that leave a lot open to to interpretation of the IO reviewing your case. B criteria are defined well which I am sure you can satisfy. What you need is a good lawyer and an employer who is willing to support you.
- When speaking equality or fareness, think about Indian H1b abusers and outsoursers. These people are already taken away jobs from US workers. They will finally ruin industries of US with nepotism and unqualified outsouring work. Think about the tragedy of Boeing. As someone said in another thread, to the privileged, equality is unfair!
- @duzJ30 So basically your idea is this: A is from India and B is from a non-quota country and they work equally hard, perform equally well. But A should never be allowed to get a GC or become citizen but B should. Well done. You sound like a racist to me. Hate for Indians seems no bounds here. It is also unconstitutional btw.
- I’m not sure why people bring racism as an argument here. This is really not the case. The only fair system is point based. I’m far from saying that current system is right, but merging queues is even further from being right! Currently people across the world have chances to get into US (which is hard for everybody!). With this bill becoming the law, it would be impossible to get to the US! India has even education system which is synchronized with the US one, that’s insane! Whole country is focused on ‘exporting’ people. To the US.
- Haha you are ridiculous. US citizens sell their products, their technology and their art in India and around the 🌐, set up private-public partnerships to extract natural resources or other types of global businesses and become millionaires themselves. Yet none of you guys have a problem with that it. But India "exporting" its talent pool is a problem. Seriously!? Ever heard of "globalization"? Well if you have, then you should also know it works both ways.
The other day I read a comment that the problem really is that "too many Indians hate their country". Seriously, how ignorant and prejudiced do you have to be to making that kind of reasoning!? India has 1.3 billion people with comparatively small land area, so some people want to move across the 🌐 and explore other life opportunities. The 1 million on visas in the US is less than 0.1% of Indian population. Don't a whole lot of 750 million Europeans live outside Europe despite having an entire continent to themselves? Don't a whole lot of Americans live in Asia and Africa? Then is not there something inherently racist to the thinking that Europeans and Americans moving around the 🌐 in pursuit of personal success is normal and permissible, but Indians should just stay within their subcontinent?
I am all for merit-based reform and want to see Indian outsourcing companies kicked out. But listening to you guys really makes me wonder about the quality of immigrants that the US is getting from countries other than India.
- Corteva Agriscience HannanaIf S386 passes, Any other country born apply for GC right now, he won’t get it in his life time, because Indian people take all the lines. He has to slave off his ass here still never gets GC. Don’t you have mercy on those people ?
- @lotsoflove no I don’t need to get GC that is why I am not biased. I am supporting betterment of Gc process but not simply giving GC to Indians just because they need to wait longer. The biggest reason why Indians need to wait forever is because ICC Abused H1B and imported millions of unqualified people who took all the queue. Unless that has been solved first, no better process can guarantee anyone’s fairness including Indians’.
- @hannanna: You say you are not biased because you don’t need GC(May be true or false, not sure), but what about the bias because of your hatred towards Indians ? Bias because of fear in your deep heart about Indians control over tech world.
Assume there is a drastic change H1B policy, which avoids ICC to get mega share, will that fix problems for existing GC backlog ? What’s your solutions for those people who are waiting for 10 years ?Sep 28 0
- @lotsoflove I have to correct u. I don’t hate Indians. I only hate those who abuse H1b and get in by cheating, not only Indians. Better change of H1b policy at least will fix the problem for Indians for the future. For existing backlog, you will need other solutions, but simply giving them the GC is not one of them.Sep 28 0
- I know the outsourcing companies are gaming the system. But what about the genuine indian applicants who have gone to prestigious universities and are working at big companies. This solution will be harmful for other countries for some time but it will level the playing field for the rest of the life.
- Backlog will never be cleared, see my previous explanation of that at the top level. Only Indians who have already applied 5-10 years ago will have wait time reduced; those who will apply in the future will still wait same 50 years, this time together with the rest of the world.
- New justgoNo S386! U.S. government should also cap H-1B visas issued each year to specific country! There is no current country-specific limit on the 85,000 H-1B work visas granted each year, and an estimated 70% go to Indians.
- Visa allocation is lottery and it goes mostly to indian because indian applicants are higher.
If you start putting the visa cap by country, you may not find 65k applicants altogether.
Moreover, you will have to pick the crap out fo other countries with very poor education systems. Not saying India's education system or engineers are most brilliant but they are far better from 100s of other countries
- S386 is merit based GC system in FIFS model. How is this related to just India and China getting benefited? So you are accepting that there is is huge backlog of India and China folks for GC , right? This bill clears them and bring every one to one line to serve GC in first come first serve. This is fair and perfect to clean up the GC mess. Nothing harm and not just related to people from India and China. Justice delayed is Justice denied.
- Amazon / Eng asdfteewIt's the job of USCIS and DOL to make sure companies applying for H1B is legit. We cannot relate this with GC.
Second getting GC for a specific country taking 100s of years is not a good thing. Instead don't allow them at first place. Almost all industries using Indian citizens to create wealth and these poor guys paying every other tax without any benefits and living a sick life here. If we are not allowing these people for 100s of years for GC, don't allow them to work here at first place then see the future and economy of US industries.
If this is impacting diversity what the diversity visa program doing?
Whoever speaking about diversity should remember that India has 17+ officially recognized languages and 15+ sizeable religions following different cultures. India itself a diversity country ... How come someone claims more Indians in US will impact diversity?
Don't post hate posts with miniscule knowledge.