Why is everyone so wrapped up with TC on this app?

Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
Dec 18, 2018 82 Comments

TC comes up in nearly every post on the app, it’s simply ridiculous to be that wrapped up in it. What ever happened to simply being happy with your job, co-workers and your career choice.

I’ve never left a job for TC reasons, it’s always been day to day work, managers, or just general not aligned with company Vision. Even so, the money in our industry is always there, so I don’t understand how this comes up in every post.

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TOP 82 Comments
  • VMware / Product lRQQ72
    TC or GTFO! And the game changed when we all became just a number in a balance sheet, with reorgs, shift to India and other bullshit. Now the $ coming from them to us is the only thing that counts
    Dec 18, 2018 10
    • Netflix bread
      We show up on the income statement, not the balance sheet 😅.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      I love it Minneapolis, and with all my left over cash I get to travel a few times a year, which I also love.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      Gill Bates

      LinkedIn Eng

      BIO
      [Insert epic sax here]
      Gill Batesmore
      1.3 million 2br townhouse, less than 1400sq ft, no lot, property tax is about 16k/yr. $2400/mo gets you maybe a studio in a 1950s building here, but that's it.

      That's why people are talking about TC, and why people making 200k+ feel poor (no housing security, can't afford to have kids).
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      For comparison I nice 2br townhouse might run $180k, with property tax 2k and monthly payment of about $1000/mo on a 30 year mortgage.

      $400 gets you a 4br house on a lot up to an acre with about $3500 sq ft...property tax of about 3k
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Wipro / Eng
      techbee

      Wipro Eng

      PRE
      Thomson Reuters
      BIO
      Devops and big data. 15+ yrs exp
      techbeemore
      @SnakeDr, sell your house in Minneapolis and come to Bayarea. Start your career to afford 30 yr mortgage
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Google / Eng UUKg61
    If you don’t work for TC, you are doing a big mistake.
    Dec 18, 2018 3
    • Oracle / Eng
      pycharm

      Oracle Eng

      PRE
      Stealth Worker
      BIO
      Control over your own life is an illusion.
      pycharmmore
      Speak for yourself. Don’t project your values onto others. OP said he values his work and lifestyle over TC.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Google / Eng UUKg61
      Pycharm, I hear you. And we both got 4 likes reflecting the world is equally divided on this :)
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Bose JustMeHa
      Now at 7-7 lol
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng Chad🕶
    It's mostly just socially inept dev's who have nothing else in life to be proud of besides their TC. So i figure, might as well let them have that on here, or they might start jumping off buildings.
    Dec 18, 2018 4
    • Kenshoo / Mktg Incogneedo
      LOL
      Dec 18, 2018
    • LiveRamp xubox
      Holy shit LOL probably true
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Twitter 🐒。
      That’s me. True.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Netflix bread
      You savage!
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Synopsys wFatDuck
    It's a Bay Area obsession and also an obsession for those with little else going on in their lives.
    Dec 18, 2018 7
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      I see property prices are way out of proportion to the Midwest where you guys are, but still I know people with waitress jobs that work in the Bay Area, they are doing just fine...likely not living anyway near you though.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • New vvnT76
      ^^That. Other parts of the country you get a huge house in a nice part of town with good schools while keeping a short commute all on a household income of 100-200k/year. Bay peninsula that doesn't even get you a house to comfortably raise a family in with a reasonable commute.

      ^The waitresses/drivers/service staff I talk to either have 3 unrelated adults living in a single room, two jobs, a 90+ minute commute, a spouse with a much better job, or a combination of those.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      Gill Bates

      LinkedIn Eng

      BIO
      [Insert epic sax here]
      Gill Batesmore
      90 minute each way, not total. Or more, see for example this federal government employee: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/business/economy/san-francisco-commute.html

      People who have bought houses six years ago or more are fine (especially if they're in tech), it's the millennials who are getting fucked hard here. Had a insensitive clod of a colleague likely making twice my salary paying 2k in mortgage in Cupertino (and bragging about it obviously) and wondering why all the millennials look stressed out.

      It's exactly why all the millennials are constantly on leetcode, have zero loyalty to their employers, will jump between employers for 50k/yr in TC, and are all discussing how they can get into FANGs, because frankly, it's the only way any of us can expect to maybe be able to raise a family here. And don't get me started on the dating scene here.

      As they say for careers in the Bay area, up or out, and for more and more people, it's looking like out is the only way to go.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      Those last two answers provide much more insight on why the income chat is so prevalent.

      I can’t image what could be so great in that area, to force someone to stay and deal with that kind of salary pressure, but suppose if you can tolerate it for a few years and are frugal you could be set for life...

      Well, except as you point out the cost of living where those salaries are such keeps you from saving as much as you could.

      Sounds like it sucks out there the way you describe it, but I suppose it’d be fighting for jobs with less pay and lower cost of living elsewhere
      Dec 19, 2018
    • New vvnT76
      In my case 100k elsewhere vs. 300k in the Bay Area, and the job is more interesting. Yet to be seen if the fewer creature comforts will push me back out at some point.
      The way I figure it the goal is to maximize TC-expenses. Say I'm running on 60k expenses in "somewhere else" I have 40k/year extra. That means if I can live on less than 260k in the Bay Area then I'm ahead long term, although with a perhaps higher risk due to the different cost/expense ratio.
      This gets a bit more complicated when you add in a spouse unless they are also in a field that is high TC in the Bay Area.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Facebook / Eng
    Easy Going

    Facebook Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    Easy Goingmore
    I wish I could thumbs up x1000
    Dec 18, 2018 2
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      Glad to here I’m not the only one that this bothers.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • New vvnT76
      You aren't. I started my own "WTF is with the TC" thread when I joined. I don't like it, but I do understand it.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Microsoft hmmmmmmmnm
    It's all well and good to say you loooovvveeee your job and would do it for free blah blah blah. The reality is, for most people their job is something they don't hate which pays for the things they actually like. And the more that job pays, the sooner they don't need the job anymore and can JUST do what they like.
    Dec 18, 2018 1
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      I just think Software is Software, and if the company is driving you like a slave than no amount of TC would get me to stay, there are so many jobs around that it’s never been hard for me to align with a companies culture...and they all pay basically the same, so TC never mattered for me as much as job satisfaction.
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Intel blob_swan
    TC is the only thing that people can't openly talk about with their friends, family, or co-workers. It kinda make sense it would be the most talked about thing in an anonymous app. Also it's easy to say money doesn't matter when you have it. For purple that don't have it. The knowledge of what job pays what helps them negotiate better.
    Dec 18, 2018 6
    • Salesforce skfjtiqlxj
      That’s not how culture works. People don’t change overnight. So you don’t just start blabbering about how much you make until we create the open culture here first and let those values spread
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Chad🕶
      People have talked on anonymous forums for years with zero progress made in real life.

      How do you think the #metoo movement gained any traction? It sure as hell wasn't from anonymous forums. It started with a single woman speaking out publicly, then another joined in, and another.

      I don't expect salary to ever become an openly discussed topic, nor do i care for it to. It won't benefit your life to know exactly how much your peers sitting next to you are making. It will likely only depress you when you find out that someone working less than you is making more, even though you thought you were a better performer than them.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      I’ve always shared my salary and my TC with all my developer friends...not so much with my working class friends, because it seemed to just be bragging to them.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Criteo / Eng p1zDaT
      You can create a culture of openness by simply discussing with your friends, either asking or telling. So many people *assume* the taboo instead of *observing* it. Most people who are more than simple acquaintances are fine discussing these topics, the problem is in your head not in other people's.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Nauto / Eng 4652414b
      Openly discussing making the kind of money you can make out here paints a target on your back. I don't know about anyone else here but if my family knew what I was making, the phone calls would never fucking stop.

      It's best to have these discussions as anonymously as possible.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
    They say, the larger the better..
    Dec 18, 2018 3
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      I still say my happiness is worth quite a bit, I’ve turned down a $400k year contract before, because I knew I’d be miserable...and I’ve never regretted it either.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      Sure, but that’s you and others may still find happiness with a larger TC. There are a ton of people with little to no work coasting on 400k+ TC in the valley, this is indeed a weird place.. money has lost its value
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      Yes, it sounds like you all are living in a modern boom town, where everything costs a ridiculous amount of money, thus despite your very good wage (if you lived elsewhere), it only enough to keep you locked into the system that you’re in, battling each other for jobs at the big four or five companies.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Airbnb jim.hodlen
    Oh there ain't no rest for the wicked
    Money don't grow on trees
    I got bills to pay, I got mouths to feed
    There ain't nothing in this world for free
    Oh no, I can't slow down, I can't hold back
    Though you know, I wish I could
    Oh no there ain't no rest for the wicked
    Until we close our eyes for good
    Dec 18, 2018 3
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      I like the song, but guess I don’t agree with the message.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Airbnb jim.hodlen
      for me, trying to get a higher tc allows me to save more and better prepare for contingencies. what if I have to spend money on healthcare that’s not covered by insurance.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      Just trying to say if you’re happy TC shouldn’t matter...I’m getting the idea that not many people here are actually happy with their jobs.
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Mozilla jKlr27
    🙌 💯

    How much money does one need to be satisfied/happy?

    According to psychology researchers, that satiation point is about $95k for individuals in the US (so about $150k in SF). After that base threshold is met, there is actually diminishing returns in life satisfaction for each additional dollar earned.

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/03/how-much-money-do-people-need-to-be-happy
    Dec 19, 2018 2
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      That sounds about right, I stopped caring about raises at about 100k
      Dec 19, 2018
    • New vvnT76
      I agree with the premise, but don't think the regional adjustment is correct. Small rural town I stopped caring at 80k, large urban area I stopped caring around 90k (ok, so 95k for others), but it would be a stretch to say that 95k in most places is 150k in SF. I think it's higher than that.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Cerner XLdG63
    The crowd here skews (very) young, that's why.
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Microsoft Babauuwi
    Given that your pay may change within any year, how do you calculate your TC, is there a website you all look at or you just do rough math in your head
    Dec 19, 2018 3
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      Gill Bates

      LinkedIn Eng

      BIO
      [Insert epic sax here]
      Gill Batesmore
      Usually it's salary plus whatever stock you'll vest in a year and the amount of your bonus. You can usually do a good estimation from your pay stub.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      My company provides it for us on our retirement planning, they include health care and other things that you might not consider, which inflates the number...We don’t get free food or a lot of the perks that some of you in the Bay Area might get, so I wonder how some of that would factor into the Total Benefits Calculations.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      Gill Bates

      LinkedIn Eng

      BIO
      [Insert epic sax here]
      Gill Batesmore
      Retirement planning is pretty rare here, other than default enrollment in 401k plans, so it's a good question as to how to count it.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Blizzard others
    Hold up this fool says he makes over 200k TC, you realize that your on the upper band of most SWE positions? Most companies don’t give stock so ur at 140-160k base max and that’s it
    Dec 18, 2018 3
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      I get stock and a pension...most companies don’t do this your right, but doesn’t mean none of them do.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Lockheed Martin / Other
      Schz3

      Lockheed Martin Other

      PRE
      industrialoptic
      Schz3more
      A pension??? Even my company is ending pensions . I thought those only exsited in public sector jobs
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      Yes, I got in before my company too discontinued the pension program, but I made the cut, since then they have moved to a traditional 401k with matching, but I do have a 2k pension, if I take it at 55 (earliest option). Plus I have a decent amount in a few 401k accounts.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Kenshoo / Mktg Incogneedo
    I’m more bothered by the frequent asking of TC because I think there’s a time and a place for it. For example, I’ve literally seen people post that they are caught in a serious bind at work and are looking for advice on here because they have no one else and people just respond “fuck off! TC or die!!” Like wtf!?
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Microsoft / Eng ComputePls
    Omg, TC is the thing on blind, just that. Plus a doze of healthy cynicism is always useful after a day with your friendly coworkers and visionary managers ;-)
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Microsoft brexitnext
    If you don’t care about money that’s fine. But I have bills to pay and I live in poverty. So TC matters.
    Dec 18, 2018 3
    • Amazon / Eng Chad🕶
      Sure, of course TC matters. Op never said TC is pointless. He simply was pointing out that the majority of people on here are obsessed with TC. And when all you do is obsess about something you don't have (higher tc), you're bound to just live a worthless life and not improve the world or others around you.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Microsoft brexitnext
      OP also said they have never changed jobs for money, that’s dumb.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      The money always came, I changed jobs plenty when the company went out of business or the work or environment wasn’t what I wanted to do, but I’ve been at Medtronic for 15 years...and they happen to pay more than pretty much most companies in the area.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
    OP
    TC just comes, my TC is over 200k in the Minneapolis area this is way more than I need to live...I’m retiring at 50 because I’ve saved so much over the years...I’ve basically only done jobs that I’ve enjoy and all my friends are coworkers, so I hang with friends all day and get paid way more than I need.
    Dec 18, 2018 2
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      Moved this to the reply above...oops
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng ComputePls
      Good for you! Really
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
    OP
    Well I’m not there yet, but I figure at 55 I’ll have somewhere around $800k plus pension.
    Dec 19, 2018 2
    • Synopsys wFatDuck
      If you're making 200k ,
      Saving just 800k seems low? Though pension is amazing!
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng SnakeDr
      OP
      There was a divorce recently that costed me half my retirement 🤬
      Dec 26, 2018
  • Uber kisht
    A lot of people in tech are immigrants. It makes sense for them to focus on money to secure their families' future.
    Dec 18, 2018 2
    • Amazon / Eng Chad🕶
      If they're main focus in life is money, they are bound to neglect their family and will always put job over them. That sounds like a sad empty life to me
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Uber kisht
      That's what a lot of people did growing up in previous generation and that's the most sensible thing thinking long term. I wouldn't fault them for this. Refer to Maslow's hierarchy for more details.
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Google / Eng hdjsnri
    200k tc in minneapolis is like 400k in high cost of living
    Dec 19, 2018 1
    • Synopsys wFatDuck
      More most likely.
      Dec 19, 2018