It’s shit and politics + resume death because you can’t talk about majority of the stuff you’re working on, even if it’s pointless mundane shit(which most of it is). Because god forbid you spill the beans about horrendously slow tech pace and how many hoops you have to jump through to update a friggin library. Source: self. Got sucked into the vortex right out of college. I can bitch now because it’s been a long time since I left. So unless they’re paying you your weight in plantinum, I’d not do it. They market themselves to new hires as exciting cutting edge research, most end up knee deep in decade old shit. Not to mention anything cutting edge is essentially a murder weapon. So take your pick
This is pretty spot on
Pretty much this
Wlb is solid. You can literally sneak off to the beach at lunch or leave at 4:30 for the beach and still be an over achiever assuming you work well when you're actually there. Everyone not in defense or the military will judge you super hard though, as you see from the first comment. Gets pretty depressing in social situations and is super rough if you want to recruit back into non-defense tech. The only people that will think you make a positive difference on anything and aren't a monster are pilots.
I’ve worked in defense. Wlb tends to be reasonable with these companies. The tech tends to be dated, the pace tedious, the politics and changing requirements infuriating. Pay isn’t terrible but isn’t remotely close to big tech. The ethical considerations are pretty serious, both in terms of putting your skills toward the creation of weapons and the huge misuse of taxpayer money on horribly managed projects that aren’t needed in the first place. I wouldn’t go back.
Well let me see... Warning, I left a little while back and am more niche than dev. If you're more traditional engineering it's not that bad, or you think you can climb the management ladder. The pay is okay, probably around 80k now for new grads in mid cost of living areas. I'm going to push ethics aside for the moment, because they also do shit like build satellites for physics research, so not everything is there to kill, and you could also convince yourself, on occasion, that you're helping to protect the poor guys getting sent into the shit. Culture wise, it is slow. WLB is great, but you have to be the type of person who doesn't convince themselves that they have a ton of work to do and that it needs to be done ASAP. You have to know you'll get it done and everything will be fine. Also there is a 980 schedule which was probably the best part. It's very much a pay your dues type false meritocracy, which means associating yourself with people who management have deemed as the chosen ones, making a lot of noise to get promos and just putting the years in. The company will also pretend to give a shit but end up doing the worst possible version of whatever benefit they we're aiming for. For instance, throwing a party but making you donate your time and serving inedible food. I think that if your past mid career and want to be technical it's not that bad as there doesn't seem to be quite as much ageism as in pure tech. If you're considered really good you could crack 300k a year and not have to work that hard. Finally, my story. I screwed up a bit when I was younger and ended up being kind of lucky to get a job there. I started at 70k. However, after slow promos and 3% raises o started getting pissed, so at two years I was at 80k. By this time I had realized what tech grads we're getting and was pissed. So I applied some places, failed a lot of interviews eventually got an offer with another defense co. *Sigh* for >100k, which Northrop matched. But I still wasn't happy, I could feel myself getting pigeonholed and was tired of the corporate culture and starting applying again after 6 months, got an offer for 150k (depends on bonus) at a place with way less BS. I'm still not completely content, and wish I could get into tech but I'm someone who learns by immersion moreso than self study so it's hard and I'm not really wanting to take a step back in comp to join a startup. TL;DR It's okay but I would avoid unless you have no other option, they're paying out the ass for some reason, you want an easy job with good wlb, you're late career and want to coast, or you're into the type of work. After all, a lot of those systems are way fucking cooler than maximizing ad revenue.
Everything I read about defense makes me feel slightly suicidal.
I just started at MITRE and it sounds like NG honestly. In fact we are right across the street from the NG headquarters in McLean, VA. I'm 90 days into this job post military and I'm ready to quit. Am I crazy? Making 100k, decent benefits, and amazing WLB. Some people do 30+ here but I just can't see myself doing the work here. Plus the technology here is not what I want to do. I'm a former military officer but I don't want to be doing defense stuff forever. Should I quit?
Get out. Defense is a shit hole. If you stay too long you'll get stuck. Don't worry about the short tenure, you have a good story so companies shouldn't care too much.
Why not come work for amazon in VA?
I already have a masters in computer engineering. Still have some GI Bill benefits remaining. Maybe I can do a programming boot camp to make my practical skills more marketable for general tech? I don't know. I'm a veteran with 12 years of service since HS graduation. I have no idea what I should do with my life. I think that's part of the problem. Definitely don't want marriage or house or lots of material things right now.
Travel for fun. Take decent jobs in interesting cities and see what they like. Find one you love and then hunker down. I'd try Boulder if you like the outdoors.
Pro tip: move out of the DMV. Recruiters will start beating down your door as soon as you set your location to SF, NYC, Seattle, Portland, Boston, etc
I’m gunna go ahead and throw my 2 cents in to this thread. OP the previous comments in this thread are completely spot on 100%. Got a job here after college feeling like a champ! Finished an MS in Aerospace Engineering with a decent salary in a large city. I was excited. After only a year and a half I am desperately trying to get out. People are right, great wlb; you can be an over achiever without even trying too hard (I personally think the government contracts that defense companies win stipulate that the employer must employ X amount of engineers hence why sometimes your work is insignificant; but management won’t tell you that). 9/80 schedule is alright, and pay is below competitive but not terrible. However, the social situations are far more cringey that I have ever thought possible of human beings. Think terrible dad jokes with and a lot of crickets after the punch line. It honestly hurts to be around that level of low social intelligence. Seriously no one talks to each other, and A LOT of older personnel just coasting to retirement. Zero networking opportunities. And usually, if you’re an engineer, you don’t interact with other teams, very siloed. The company doesn’t care about you as much as they try to make it seems that way. Zero bonuses (small raise to account for inflation); hard to get a promotion. Lots f unhappy or disgruntled workers. If you want a job where you basically can’t get fired, Work in the defense industry. If you want to be happy in life, don’t work here.
Seriously OP, there’s enough death and war and destruction in the world. Why don’t you put your effort and talents towards a cause that does some good in the world? Or at least is closer to neutral and less so overt WMD/death dealing?
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You have to enjoy making products that can be used to blow up children’s hospitals in the Middle East. If you’re into that you’ll fit right in
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