I just got off an initial call with a recruiter for an E4 (mid-level) SWE role, and was told to expect about 220-240k TC (~140k base). This is for Bay Area / Seattle, which apparently have the same compensation range. I understand the 320k days are over, but this range is still about 50k less than what I expected. Is the recruiter bullshitting me? There's a Blind post from yesterday where a guy got a 290k TC offer with 180k base. I was also told that starting Monday, DoorDash is instituting a policy that makes it a lot more difficult to get money for relocation. In case that's of interest to anyone. TC 130k YOE 3 #doordash #swe
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You got a better offer? Smart move from recruiting
Bruh, I can't even get other interviews 💀
that sounds like a you problem; not an employer lowballing you problem
That's a terrible base for the Bay area wtf. I wonder if there's room to negotiate a higher base and less equity
+1 If you're getting the same offer for bay area and Seattle, I'd just take the Seattle location.
I’d just move to Eastern Europe lol.
The golden decade of software eng is over. The age of 🥜 is approaching. Watch pay crash at entry the next five years due to sheer size of incoming CS new grads.
Maybe I'm being optimistic but I feel like the saturated market these past couple years helped us all secure higher TC because of the competitiveness. Im wondering if the age of 🥜 is going to scare most the incoming cs grads away that were only in it for the money though haha
Exactly. Spooked new grads. Spooked immigrants. VCs throwing money at AI startups that are poaching mathy people from SWE roles. Lower productivity from remote work and general mental health crisis unfolding. I predict in the next decade, SWE TC will be even higher than in the last decade. Just need to get back into QE and interest rate lowering.
Recruiter here, I don’t work for Doordash. Compensation is *always* set by a compensation team and finance, not a recruiter. It’s the company policy. It’s based on how much the company can afford versus make and they have a ton of financial models where they look at how projects run, organizations are designed, and what something costs. They then have to be fair and set pay the same for everyone. An internal recruiter has no motivation to lowball you (if anything the opposite to get you to accept the offer if they’re measured by how many hires they make). Very occasionally, recruiters can argue with the compensation team and put why you should be above everyone else (for example a specialized skill set like some niche form of ML with data that shows the company is below what that type of skill set makes). There is a range, because levels are wide and someone may be “junior” (newly promoted) or “mid” or “senior” (about to be promoted to the next level or got down leveled) within that level. What I’m saying is a recruiter has no incentive to bullshit you. If they say that is the range, that’s probably the range. If you (or someone else) somehow got more, that’s a recruiter arguing with the compensation team, HR, and likely leadership (depending on how senior you are) on the candidate’s behalf, likely spending hours (sometimes days) to convince them to break what we call “parity” (aka how much everyone else is making). Right now companies have to save budget, so probably that’s what they can afford. They are willing to not fill a role, because that’s how businesses work. Sometimes they can’t afford something because it’s not profitable. Hopefully times will get better and companies will make more money and the demand for talent will go up. Agency recruiters (3rd party) will have incentive to negotiate you down and make a placement because they are paid per hire (usually 20-30% of your base). Internal recruiters are measured by if they can fill roles, the people they hire are retainable, the business succeeds and get paid a regular salary/equity structure like you — they are not measured by how much you make, but rather if the business and team succeed. I have never cared about how much a candidate makes on a personal level, only on a business level - can we afford them? Will they be critical to what we build and add value? Is what I’m paying them fair with the rest of the team but will also retain them so they don’t leave for a higher offer in a hot market? Just my two cents as a recruiter of 10+ years.
Nice post. Is it rude to ask for a non junior recruiter before the process? How can I ensure the best recruiter to bat for me without having to hand hold them to getting above the band offers
Recruiters are assigned to the position/team. That’s like if a PM got to decide what engineers work on. The recruiting manager decides that way before the position opens, and they decide it based on how difficult the role, team, and position are to fill vs the recruiters skill set. If you want a more senior recruiter, my advice is to become an executive or senior staff+ level IC. 😉 ps - junior recruiters can be very motivated to help candidates, so if you’re extra nice and helpful and can help them justify things, they can put in the work. they are very anxious about losing offers. just help them out and be patient and partner with them, being nice goes a long way. at this point in my career I can probably convince anyone in the company of anything I need (within reason), but I truly do not care if a candidate takes my offer because I’m ok with failing. I think for junior or generic roles, a motivated junior recruiter will work harder for you though they may not be as skilled in negotiating with the compensation team or have relationships with HR/VPs like I do. :)
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
That's an unfortunately short tenure. I'm sorry. That base is WILD, though. If you pulled that off, I'm sure you're moving on to greener pastures in no time. Good luck!
I should have known, but I still can't believe that you would do this to me. I have aggressively lawn-mowed the grass in the aforementioned greener pastures, and they are now 33% smaller.
This is a typical E4 offer 4 years ago. Many companies have stock price lower than that time, not too surprised
3 YOE and you are complaining about being offered over $220K?!? What is wrong with you???
A lot of things, but you've misunderstood me here. I'm not complaining about a 200k salary. I'm simply trying to extract as much money as possible out of these companies, which are paying out ludicrous amounts of it. If I receive an offer of 220k but I know that the average offer is much closer to 300k, I'd be a fool to not at least question that. I understand where you're coming from, but the attitude of "it's so much money, so take it and shut up" doesn't really work for me. If everybody actually did that, these big tech salaries would never have gotten as ridiculously high as they have.
How have you missed the news about the turmoil in the tech sector? The good days are over. How are you not aware of that?
Yeah it's becoming a trend now
Employers market, why not
DD isnt doing too hot right now either, no more VC money for a while
Blind will still say it’s a lowball like it’s 2021 lol welcome to the new normal