Didn’t get an offer, but never thought I’d even make it to an on-site. I think I did well enough to be liked as some type of Googler, and I think I’m ready to quit coding. Can anyone at Google suggest an alternative? I like business and customer needs, and also supporting engineers. There are solutions engineer types of roles and also TPM. Will I look desperate if I go back to my recruiter, acknowledge my defeat in this industry, and see if Google thinks I can parlay that experience into a non-SWE role? I don’t want to feel degraded, though, like an underpaid almost-SWE who’s treated like an intern. I’m an SDE 2 at Amazon and I’ve sadly reached the end of the road on that one. Note that this isn’t me desperately trying to get into Google, I know they’re not that great. I’d just like to find a way to transition from engineering to something similar, with a good company who values my past experience and potential. Unfortunately I cannot switch to Engineering Manager — it seems this can only happen within a company from an IC engineering role. I missed my chance for that at Amazon.
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+1. Curious of this, too, as I have an on-site approaching and anticipate failure.
For SWE? If so, I’ll tell you what you need to do to prepare. I’ll find that link..
SRE, SWE track. 5 YOE.
Curious why you apply for L5? Have you asked if L4 is possible? That’s a better match for SDE2.
I would have expected the recruiter to offer that, they leveled me as such. From what I’ve seen posted on Blind, Google would rather decline than downlevel. At least they will if you’re in the 20+ yoe bucket like me. When you’re older, the veiled ageism is that we are very much WYSIWYG — any red flag at all is huge because we’re not likely to respond to coaching like a younger buck would. My red flag is that I’ve been a generalist my whole career. I’ve done a ton of sh1t, but I can’t knock anyone dead with anything. I can with writing squeaky clean production-ready code and detailed technical docs/specs, but interviewing is about fast code first and I’ll never get to demonstrate those others in interviews.
Some time I feel our recruiter is not doing things right. I interviewed a L5 candidate few days ago, the candidate’s skill is so poor even for L3. I guess recruiter just let him target L5 given he worked 10+ years. To be clear, I never asked complicated algorithm like DP, and, never expect bug-free code in the first round. Anyway, for op, if you really need to find some place and interested in that, why not just ask recruiter if you can try other roles. You have nothing to lose. Good luck!
Technical program management is where I would look if you have Dev experience but don't want to continue as a swe. We hire tpm's with that profile, but we don't sponsor. Let me know if you want to chat
I considered TPM roles at Amazon, but I honestly wasn’t impressed by the few I met there. By “don’t sponsor”, what do you mean? I am a citizen.
I never know who is a citizen and who is not, so I throw it in there so we don't waste time if people need h1b. I've been pretty impressed by our tpm's. We have a staunch requirement that they know how to develop. I'll pm you so we can chat.
Why won't you stay at Amazon as an SDE2?
It didn’t work out for me. My skip level thinks I should go TPM. Unfortunately that was after my LE rating. Despite my LE rating, I did submit 475 CRs in less than a year. I got fu*ked at Amazon but I let it happen and it’s irrevocable. It was sad to many of us but too late to undo, I just couldn’t adapt as quickly as I needed to and was plain worn out at the end of it all.
What's an LE and what are CRs?
Why can't you be an SDM at Amazon? Not saying you should, and I'm too inexperienced to answer your question. I'm just curious what makes people stop from being an SDM and whether that'll happen to me too.
See my comment in the response above — it’s too late. I played the game wrong and lost. I had a bad series of SDM misfortunes and that contributed to my downfall. People can say what they want about LEs here — but let me tell you mine is one of the most unfortunate in Amazon’s history, it was a complete waste of a talented person. But I simply could not recover from it.
What's an IC
Individual Contributor. Basically, an engineer whose sole purpose is to write code.
Why wouldn't any SDE be an IC? I'm confused
Hey man. First things first. Keep your chin up. Take a deep breath and realize that you are better off than 99%+ people of the planet. Now lets talk this through. PgMs and SEs bring other 'softer' skills that you may not possess and/or may have a hiring committee question if you'll do well at Google if you lack demonstration/examples of that skill. I work with some world class PgM and SE at Google and while I am sure you can do their job better than them, you may get unfairly penalized due the hiring process. If you are unhappy at Amazon, and your final goal is Google, let me suggest another path. Take a detour. Go join a place that gives you the experience you need to be a PgM or SE at Google. Go work at a startup or a smaller company. They would love to have someone like you in their ranks. You would learn a ton. And guess what, in 3-4 years (and that is assuming if you even want to leave- because you are having so much fun) if you were to re-apply at Google, we would absolutely roll out the red carpet for you.
Well, I do have lots of engineering experience at smaller companies. 1.5 years at Amazon *was* my warmup for a place like Google. I know Google is not The End, but I got caught up when it appeared that I had the chance. It’s not that I didn’t like Amazon, it’s truthfully a younger man’s game. I don’t want sprints where I’m churning out stories and giving daily updates, and having to constantly please SDMs who only believe in negative reinforcement. If Google is no different, then I guess I deserved to fail the interview because I would likely fail the job. But my understanding was that Google realizes that engineering succeeds by being able to breathe a little: Amazon does NOT. Amazon SDEs are treated no different from FC (warehouse) workers, the main difference is sitting vs standing & monthly quotas vs daily. Amazon SDE is a churn factory just like the fulfillment centers. Only we pee in bottles because Amazon was too cheap to spring for 2 men’s rooms on most floors LOL.
I disagree with you saying SDEs are treated as fulfilment workers. I think it largely depends on your team and manager. Some teams are run very bad, just to ship get promo and leave. But there are plenty of teams which think long term and don't burnout their workforce.
If you couldn't be a SWE at amazon, why would you want to continue that role in another company?
Companies vary in culture and problem domain. A SWE at one company may work differently than a SWE at another.
You really think so?
Sales Engineer, or PreSales Engineer
Keep you heads up!
Thanks, but... then what? 🤕