The process has been very confusing, so here's what I wish I knew upfront: 0. Noone knows which conditions qualify and which don't qualify for FMLA. It's said that "burnout" alone may not qualify as serious enough. It's said that "adjustment disorder w/ anxiety + depressed mood" may qualify. As well as any other "anxiety" and/or "depression" diagnosis. Amazon DLS doesn't reveal a full list of issues that do or don't qualify. 1. Look into the benefits guide on the benefits website, there's a whole section for mental health. Call ResourcesForLiving EAP; ask them to provide you with a list of [in-person non-Talkspace] therapists that, (1), accept RFL EAP, (2), accept your insurance (unless you have Kaiser or HMO, then you may be out of luck). There's no self-serve to get such list yourself as of 2021 [don't bother registering on RFL website, it's useless, they'll tell you as much when you call]; you have to call and they have to email you. They should email you a list right away. RFL's IT is incompetent, so it'll be in your spam folder, or outright rejected by the mail server. Don't give up. 2. Call each number on the list. Expect to make a total of 10 to 20 calls to find a therapist. If you get a switchboard or a receptionist, politely hang up, those are useless. If you get a personal voicemail, leave a message for the therapist to call you back. If you get a therapist, ask them if they're accepting new clients, confirm that in-person/video/phone works as per your preference (usually all "in-person" sessions are done over video in 2021), whether they accept EAP and your healthcare insurance, whether they would be willing to evaluate you to see if the life- and/or work-related stress / anxiety / depression you're having may qualify you for FMLA. Tell therapist you may be interested in biweekly sessions for 12 weeks (6 or 7 sessions total) to deal with the issues. Setup an appointment. You'll need at least one official session before they can determine if you suffer from anxiety/depression (i.e., before they can guarantee supporting your FMLA, prior to this, they just have to be open to it in principle). These RFL EAP psychotherapists only have a Master's degree, and may want to upsell you to a psychiatrist for FMLA, who is a real MD; politely refuse, because it's not required to get an FMLA/STDI approved at Amazon. They may also upsell you to weekly sessions; note that it's been officially confirmed by many Amazonians that biweekly is sufficient, but it's between you and your therapist on what the appropriate treatment for your condition may be. 3. Call RFL EAP again. Tell them you picked provider X, setup an appointment for date Y. Obtain the authorization code from RFL EAP; give this code to provider, code is good for 3 free sessions per issue (life event) per plan year, valid for 120 days. There's no copay. But give your main insurance info anyways, to ensure you get full discount after EAP runs out. TBD: after the 3 free sessions from EAP are over, you could either obtain authorization for an additional 3 sessions if it's a different issue (supposedly we get a total of 25 sessions at RFL EAP per a representative!), or use the health insurance to pay for additional sessions (after meeting deductible and copay). FORMS: you get forms from Amazon DLS emailed to your personal email address a few days after applying for a Medical LOA; it's a single ~20-page PDF file with a 3-page or a 1-page form within, plus a cover letter for the form (ignore the letter). You get a minimum of 14 days AFTER the start of any leave period to submit the forms; DLS may also offer extensions (esp. for the initial submission). Email the relevant pages of the form to your therapist before the second session; ask them to fill it out during the second session. Many Amazonians have had issues with therapists not returning the forms promptly. WA/CA/NY/etc FORMS: the leave is paid at exactly 60% of base, directly by Amazon payroll, in any state where the FMLA is an unpaid leave; in WA/CA/NY/etc, the leave is paid at up to 60% by Amazon STDI, less the state-specific benefits. Note that Amazon's STDI and WA FMLA is pretax, so you still have to pay taxes on the income as if it was regular salary; however, CA-SDI is generally tax-free. State-specific benefits have their own forms which you must obtain directly from the state on your own. COST/Frugality: you get the first 3 sessions for free from RFL EAP, there's no copay, and this works regardless which insurance plan you have. After that, unless you get EAP to switch issues and cover more sessions, or a new year starts, you pay through insurance, or out of pocket. Example: HSA plan has a 1.5k deductible; each session may cost $110 through insurance, or $140 cash. You'll be paying $110 per session until you reach 1.5k deductible for the plan; after that you only pay 10% of $110. (If you go for a psychiatrist, those cost $300+ per visit, since they're real MDs.) TIMING 1: Focus: best not to use FMLA during Focus, best to save all of this for Pivot Entry. You can take FMLA at any time before failing Pivot Appeal. If your manager plans to PIP you on December 1, taking FMLA on November 1, you lose 1 month of full salary, so, simply wait for Dec 1 unless you really can't stand Amazon no more, or unless you already have a 2x offer from another company. TIMING 2: Pivot: after you get the PDF with the Pivot Entry, you have a few days to decide whether you want to take severance or improve. If you Improve, you get one or two months to Improve according to plan. If you do absolutely nothing, manager can cut the Improve short, moving you directly to Pivot Appeal; if you're working diligently, there's little chance of this happening, even if deadlines are missed. If you fail Pivot, you have the option to do a Pivot Appeal. There's empirical evidence of folks successfully taking FMLA right after failing the Pivot; then coming back from the 12w leave straight to do the Pivot Appeal, and winning the Pivot Appeal. If you win Pivot Appeal, supposedly you can then resign w/o any no-rehire plan, and take the Tier 1 severance. STDI: don't confuse your therapist with disability benefits; FMLA itself is a lot to handle. Outside of WA/CA/NY/etc, you get disability benefits on the side, there's no separate paperwork (at least not with Amazon, no idea about WA and CA paperwork). Some people did report getting slightly different extra forms to fill out for STDI. Generally, each form gets you up to 60 days of leave if filled out properly by a therapist, and a single form can approve both FMLA and STDI. DURATION: You can get this protected leave for up to 12 weeks through FMLA after 12 months of tenure. You could additionally get this up to 26w through Amazon's own Medical LOA (total is 26w, only first 12w is FMLA). Amazon cannot fire you during FMLA 12w; it's unclear whether Medical LOA affords you such benefit or not (EDIT: probably still protected because of ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), since your leave can only play a 0.0% role in a termination). Q: Do I have to have been employed for 12 months to qualify? A: Nope! Looks like Medical LOA / STDI is available right after one day of tenure. However, to play it safe, and avoid losing the severance, it's best to first try to Improve on Pivot before taking the leave, to avoid the possibility of being fired right away on return in case Medical LOA doesn't protect you. Q: does adjustment disorder quality for more than 12w? A: no idea. Please let us know if you find out. Q: do I get paid? A: PAY: STDI covers up to 60% of base salary, up to 11w for 12w FMLA leave, and up to 25w for 26w total Medical LOA. You take Medical LOA, FMLA, and STDI concurrently. FMLA expires after 12w. STDI starts 1w late. STDI and Medical LOA expire 26w (182d) after the start of the leave. (After 26w, an LTDI becomes a possibility, but that's administered by an external insurance agent.) Q: vacation, personal, sick time? A: in California: select to use 40hrs of time when applying for the leave, because first week is unpaid by STDI. A: outside California: select ALL of personal + sick time to apply to for the leave (e.g., all of 48h or 96h, depending on state), because it simply expires otherwise; if less than 40hrs of personal+sick time, select up to 40hrs of vacation time (vacation bucket is fully paid out on separation, up to 160h in most states). A: both: you select this with DLS when you apply, you don't report this at timeoff amazon com at all. Also, per coordination of benefits documentation, the STDI is not reduced for PTO redemption, so you can cashout all of your PTO when taking a leave. Q: RFL EAP / Aetna / Premera? A: note that I do recommend finding a therapist through ResourcesForLiving EAP, not PsychologyToday. However, once you do find it, if you want the paperwork completed, you have to be open about paying them through insurance, not through the free EAP. They reportedly only get $50 from RFL EAP (at zero cost to you) [and even less from some other EAPs for the non-Amazonians reading this], but $110 from Aetna/Premera (often at 10% to 100% cost to you, depending on whether the deductible has been met); hence EAP clients are their lowest priority; since noone likes half a TC. Keep this in mind when you negotiate, and always mention you have both EAP as well as Aetna/Premera insurance (or, if Kaiser, you may have to be open to paying extra cash, for forms and/or sessions). So, why use RFL EAP at all? First of all, it guarantees the therapists found through the RFL EAP phone representatives are qualified and vetted; second, there's a higher likelihood they accept new patients if they're potentially willing to take half the rate. And even if you do pay $150 cash per session if Kaiser HMO lets you down, you still get a nice return from that 60% STDI. If you take any non-FMLA Medical Leave while on a Pivot, please let us know whether it pauses Pivot successfully. There's no documentation available whether Amazon has an issue firing people who are on a non-FMLA medical leave. They cannot fire you during FMLA, and they have to stop the deadline timer during FMLA, too; but it's unclear whether non-FMLA also affords any such protections (DLS may claim you cannot be fired during Medical LOA, but it's unclear whether they know the policy or not). EDIT: it appears that a {Medical LOA} / {ADA Leave as an Accommodation} (are these the same or different?), should still protect your job, because your disability can only play a 0.0% role in a termination; worst case, even if your position is eliminated, your leave is still supposed to be honored, and you'll simply be terminated only after you come back and there's no job (this is described for Personal LOA, which doesn't protect the position, it's probably unlikely to happen with a Medical LOA). #burnout #depression #mentalhealth #amazonbenefits #amazonfocus #amazonpivot #amazonpip #focus #pivot #pip #pipped #stdi #fmla
Thanks for writing this.
Great information thank you
Wow saved! I’ve been looking for this information
I’ve heard that if you go on FMLA before dev list, there’s an internal rule stating that management needs to wait one month before placing you on dev list. This is a regulatory/lawsuit avoidance thing. It’s not 100% confirmed, but read it on blind
This may only help you if your manager told you they're going to do a Pivot Entry really soon. Otherwise, many people are living in fear of Pivot for months, so, preemptively taking FMLA isn't a good strategy if you know it's already coming anyway. Unless you know an FMLA could help you get out of Focus, waiting it out is the best strategy. BTW, do you have any idea whether non-FMLA medical leave protects you from termination? Technically, any leave above 12w no longer has FMLA protection. But I couldn't find any confirmation anywhere, obviously, there's still a lawsuit possibility if you get fired during a medical leave even if it's not protected by federal law. EDIT: Leaves above 12w, as well as Y1 leaves, are still protected by the ADA on the federal level, so FMLA doesn't really do much for a mental health leave.
Thank you for sharing! Saved. Do you get paid at your regular salary on FMLA? Does stock vesting pause?
There's a document with leave policy that describes this; tldr vesting isn't paused during PTO; pauses 15d (2w1d) after STDI. So, if you take 5 days of PTO at the start of the leave, your vesting will pause after ~3 weeks, and will be shifted by 9 weeks after return. If you have zero PTO, it'll be paused after 2 weeks and will shift 10 weeks after return. Pay is up to 60% of base through STDI. No 401k contributions allowed because your pay is considered 0, so, you cannot do the Megabackdoor during the mental health leave, either (unless you take PTO concurrently).
What does STDI stand for? If you have shares that will vest in 3 months and you take 3 months of FMLA paid leave at Amazon, will those shares vest when you come back?
👏👏👏
Jeez what’s wrong with Amazon, to force their employees into this situation
Squid game
Thank you. Kind of a dick move if you can get fired during medical LOA. Are you hr or have you gone through this process?
If I was HR, I would hopefully know the answer to this question instead of trying to crowd source it here!
I just got into dev list, applied for FMLA (for anxiety and depression), but case manager said that it should be transferred under Medical LOA. I haven't scheduled therapist appointment yet. What should I do next apart from taking therapist appointment.
There are plenty of therapist who would support fmla for your circumstances. Amazon really fucks with your brain. Also dev list is not the place to take fmla
Are you in the first year? How did you apply for FMLA at Amazon? I don't think there's even any way to apply for FMLA directly. It gets applied automatically for any Medical LOA claim if you qualify; they're all taken concurrently. However, it's indeed a bad idea to take any LOA during Focus, because then you'll be getting into Pivot straight after your return (maybe like 1 month after return as per other comments), versus getting into Pivot after months of Focus if you never take any LOA.
saved post. i’m good now, may need this later