Is Google bad for career?
Reading multiple posts about promotions in Google, it does not appear to be a good career option anymore. This is specially true for T3, T4 as people struggle to move to T5. Also, in terms of learning and career growth, many people suggested to join /move fb/uber. So, is it still a good idea to join Google at T4, with 7 yoe for a sde2 working in Amazon? I am worried that I could end up spending 3 yrs at t4, 10 yoe and still at T4. For people with 7-8+ yoe who joined Google at T4, what are your thoughts?
In for the money. Kay? Google resume ++ money!
Same as Amazon I think. SDE2 to 3 needs more than just hard working and it is very difficult. Principle level is all about politics. I will go to Google in a heartbeat if I have an offer. Amazon treats thier employees like shit and the leadership principle is full of crap.
Totally agree! Had an onsite at Amazon and couple of interviewers were so arrogant. Way too many questions around leadership principles, I felt that takes away the focus from actual job skills. Glad I also got an offer from another company with better pay and role. Atleast now I know what Amazon hype is all about and I bet more than half a people there work only to have amazon on resume and move on
One of the leadership principles of Amazon is frugality, which definitely isn’t nice as an employee. I would say go for it so you can see the difference, I get contacted by different amzn recruiters once every week or two, so worst case if it doesn’t work out you should have good shot of going back. I think everyone should experience both companies(going both ways) tbh.
I don’t understand this talk about Google not being good for your career. I went L3 to L4 in a year and will likely L5 in the same amount of time. If you work hard, assuming you have a solid and appreciative team, you’ll get your desired growth.
"Assuming that you have a solid and appreciative team." That's a really big assumption. That type of environment isn't easy to find. Any advice on that front?
You must be a true Googler then.
where did you read all that in my post? I never mentioned one should expect promotion just based on time in role. It seemed to be a common problem at Google to not get promoted. Also, I imagine engineers are smarter than most other companies. This is probably one reason why many Googlers would start looking outside after few years.
No, Google is not bad for your career, getting stuck in the same job is bad for your career. Ok, I'm new to Blind and it's all very exciting here, so I'm going to spend this morning while I'm on Google Bus telling you what I wish I realized a few years ago. Here it is: forget what level you are at and work as if you are at the next level. Have that sink in your head. Here's what it means. At Google the main difference between L4 (aka SDE2 at AMZN) and L5 (aka SDE3) is being able to solve vague problems and taking initiative. I.e. expectations of L4 are "here's what needs to be done, do it", L5 expectations "here's a problem, figure out what needs to be done to solve it and then do that". Plus L5 would often come up with such problems himself, e.g. "oncalls spent 90% of time dealing with X, so I did Y and now X is no longer a problem resulting in reduction of oncall pages by those 90%". There are of course people who have been handed their promo on a silver platter, but we are not talking about those. So I'm sure at AMZN there's a similar written down description of SDE3 traits. Print it out, tape it to your monitor and start doing those things. In the process you probably will realize that your team or manager or product is not the right environment. So go look for the right environment which will allow you to exhibit those traits. I think it's easier to find the right team inside the company. When you interview potential new teams ask the manager directly about SDE3 scope. Now, promo at Amazon sucks. But it does not matter, it sucks at Google too. Your goal is to be able to describe what you did that qualifies you as SDE3. Spend a year or two working on that. Then flip the switch on LinkedIn saying you're open for new opportunities. When Google recruiter reaches out, tell them that you want L5 because of those things you did so that they set up a senior enough interview loop. Prepare well too. My point is that switching companies by itself does not really matter. Start thinking as L+1 and doing things as L+1, and if you don't get promoted where you are at _then_ switch companies to get the next level.
great advice, and really appreciate taking time to write this.
Great advice.
R u joking
This happens in every company. You will have generally happy and productive people and then some that got "stuck" in bad team or management. Sometimes hardwork wont pay off and you have to go elsewhere. I made the mistake staying in my last FANG job for too long, to a point they didn't give me any more refresher. I was happy with good wlb, then one day they say they are off shoring and reassign us to do shitty work. We all left but realized how the world has changed. Leetcode, 300k TC, down level, your old skill was obsoleted. Back in the rat race I go. I'll be happily down leveled if they pay me 300k TC. Less responsibility + high pay -> wlb and happy life. Don't try this until you have a wife, 2 kids, started balding, mid life crisis, menopause, empty nest, etc.
Just having it on my resume opened new doors for me. I will either grow at Google or move elsewhere if I feel staggered.
Could you give specific examples of how it helped you? Were you previously working at Faang or tier1 company?
Open new doors of T4 in another FANG company lol. #t4forlife