You can literally get paid $300k as a sde2 for remote work. I’d get why it wouldn’t be tempting if you work at e.g. Google, but it seems like free money if you currently work at e.g. IBM, Intel, Capital One, Indeed, Zillow, etc. and earn only $100k. Tc 250k
I personally value a healthy WLB and I’ve seen/heard too many stories of Amazon SWEs being overworked. Sure, I could get onto a team that works <= 40 hours/week but I’d rather not risk it. Right now, I’m comfortable with my income, so why put my mental health on the line? If, in general, Amazon had better reviews by its SWEs, I’d for sure give it a go. But in its current state, I’d rather keep working at C1 or apply to places that are held in higher regard for WLB.
This ☝️. Some people can handle the stressful jobs and bad culture. Some can’t or don’t want to. Some people risk it to have a better name on their resumes or make some extra money. There are interesting and high scale jobs everywhere, not just Amazon. A lot have had to recover from the mental damage of their stressful jobs. It’s not worth it in the end.
I’ve been in bad WLB job before. There’s a diminishing return on the extra money that becomes more pronounced when your job takes all your time. Not worth the gamble getting the right team right now. FWIW, one of my immediate friends worked at Amazon for a while and left. I asked if WLB and pip culture are as bad as everyone says, they said yes.
Who makes $100k?
Sde2: https://www.levels.fyi/company/Capital-One/salaries/Software-Engineer/Software-Eng/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/Intel/salaries/Software-Engineer/Grade-6/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/IBM/salaries/Software-Engineer/Staff-Engineer/ Entry level: https://www.levels.fyi/company/Zillow/salaries/Software-Engineer/P2/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/Indeed/salaries/Software-Engineer/L1/
Meta IBM and c1 aren’t completely in the bay. I think c1 is in McLean Virginia, so moving to Seattle or dc and adjusting to the COL might not be worth it for them
i thought indeed paid well?
Yeah some of my examples probably didn’t work out well. But since Amazon can go up to $350k or even rarely $400k for sde2 my point stands.
Also as a Meta dev I’m still considering it. If I get up to e.g. E5 and only make $400k, but Amazon offered me $650k + remote for L6, I’d consider the jump.
People prefer to be like Horses rather than Donkeys. Mental stress leads to issues in personal life as well. Whoever cares about WLB they ran away from Amazon.
What about average hourly rate? If Amazon employees have to typically work 60 hours not to get pip'ed vs 40 hours at normal companies, they'd have to pay at least 50% more just to break even. It should work to leave tier 4 companies like Intel but even many tier 3 companies would pay more hourly.
Honestly I haven't met any of these mythical 60 hour/week teams at Amazon yet. Most of us work 40-45 hours. The exceptions so far have been: 1) individuals trying to get promotions working extra 2) any time I've come into contact with Indian teams, they seem to be on at all hours. Sure we sometimes have to work longer hours like if there's an LSE or a Log4J type event, but those things happen infrequently. Also for what it's worth, I've only seen 2 people get PIP'd and both had it coming - I don't mean that in an elitist way, I mean they literally were checked out and collecting a paycheck.
You clearly don’t work in AWS (speaking as a former employee here). Levi’s point is 100% valid.
Mediocre SDE/architect here: - I already make 300k TC - VG won’t PIP my ass
Yeah. Also if people get pipped before 2 years which happens often at Amazon, they’ll have to pay back the sign on bonus which is a big chunk of their TC. Someone from Amazon warned SDE 1 & 2 about that online. More senior devs who know Amazon tech stack well have better chance of surviving the pip.
Architect? Like one above senior level? It looks like Amazon could do $800k for that. $600k for senior.
Could not pass interviews at amazon… Amazon interviews are still harder than mid tier such as ibm etc
When did you try last time ? Try now..
Few years back.. right could try but another big factor is laziness lol Money’s not the best but I only work few hours a day now as senior and make enough money that money isnt such a strong motivator anymore..
If I was on some teams at C1 I would just rather be at Amazon. C1 has stack ranking even though it’s not as bad as Amazon. Some teams at C1 have terrible wlb or managers. Those devs leave asap. Some did go to Amazon. The majority of people at C1 care more about a stable job than a stressful high paid job. C1 uses aws so a lot of devs here can easily get an offer from Amazon. A lot did but didn’t move. I know some people would look down on C1 devs and call this bs but it’s true. There are decent devs here. The tech stack is pretty much the same as Amazon’s. It’s a pretty smooth transition from C1 to Amazon. TC is not everything.
I am on one of the teams that has bad WLB some of the time. I am interviewing at Amazon for practice, but if the offer was too good to refuse, I would consider it.
Have you thought about switching internally to a better team ?
OP, for some context: if someone is at PA or higher level, one can get paid 180-220k cash at C1, works less than 20 h / week, does on-call only during business hours. That’s a pretty good deal. If one lives in Richmond, VA or Plano, TX, that TC is very good. Amazon Seattle or Arlington pays more but all things considered, it’s not as sweet of a move as you think.
I’m joining a commercial bank team at C1 as a full remote PA starting in that range. Talking with the HM it seems like on-call will mostly be during business hours as most if not all of the users will be operating during business hours. Idk about the hours per week yet, but hopefully it will be around 30, but I’ll be fine with 40..
My on call is all hours, unfortunately. If I am going to be ignored and have to do on call weeks, I might as well make more money under similar treatment?
P(PIP) >> P(250k/yr for 2 yrs)
Earning 500k over 2 years and taking a vacation for 3 years >> Earning 500k over 5 years
It’s not one to one… if you take vaca for more than 6 months, you can’t jump back in. Also, there’s a chance you don’t make it out the first year. That being said the brand could help you get another job