Is it me or there are really no openings for that role at Google and Facebook? Otherwise my assumption is that they recruit for Engineering Manager and then consider the person for a Senior position later on? Edit: like L7/M2 from levels.fyi Thanks in advance! YoE 16 (6 as a manager) TC 85k in Germany as EM PS: I know, TC in Europe sucks...
I thought M2(L7) was Senior Engg Manager(Senior Staff), and Next level was Director - is this not true ?
Ah misread earlier comment , so this does seem to be true
I really don't like senior managers who don't grow into that role at the company. They are responsible for cultural direction for lot of people and sometimes they need see time before adjusting to the new culture.
Makes sense. I am struggling accept the idea of stepping down to join on a lower position and climb the latter again. Because I know there are people that think like you and the scope of the job would be completely different. Also it means sharpening some edges as I do not code for a living (for a while actually), but it is not too bad.
A lower position? What do you mean? Your TC would be higher even at L6. Probably at L5.
Most manager hires at F and G have some sort of "in" , most likely very strong references from current senior employees. If not, they have to bring in some unique skills. It's not really something that's accessible through a job portal though YMMV.
I was suspecting that as well...
I’ll agree here manager hires I’ve seen have always had at least 1-2 referrals speaking to management capability
Still trying to figure out the dynamics between staff and sr. staff. People keep insisting staff is very senior, but nobody ever talks in enough detail. Yeah it's senior, we get that. Can we describe the difference between staff and sr. staff in detail though?
Definitely time to start smashing that networking game. The more senior you get, the more important it becomes. Also in my opinion, leadership is 90% about defining and promoting culture/vision. Make of that what you will.
From the FB perspective, I’ve been involved in hiring M1, M2, and D1 from outside the company. Here are some observations: If there is a first line manager opening, it is assumed to be an M1 role, but a candidate could receive an M2 offer if that’s where they level after interviewing. M2 does not necessarily mean or require that you manage other managers. These roles would not have been advertised as M1 or M2, but if you read the req, you probably would have assumed M1. For the D1 roles, they were all assumed to be D1 roles at the time of creating the req, but if we really liked a candidate who was earlier career/less experienced, I think putting an M2 offer out there would definitely have been on the table. I can only remember one of those reqs in great detail, and I think most people outside the company would have had a hard time guessing what level it was for, other than “more than M1”. I also know of two D2s recruited from outside. Both were for new initiatives that were created, with multiple sub teams. I think both would have received a D1 offer if that’s where they came in on experience/capability after the interview. Not clear to me that VP1 would have been on the table for a really exceptional candidate, I tend to think not.
Nice insights , are you at the Director level ?
Thank you very much!
Hey OP where jn Germany are you located? I’m getting an offer for G Munich this week and I’ll appreciate some insight. Do you mind if I DM you?
West Germany. Please feel free to DM me, but I would recommend you to make a post and everyone can see the contribution.
Eng manager at G generally is a senior position. I don’t even know if there is a position formally called senior engineering manager.
Good to know thanks. I mean something like L7/M1 like according to levels.fyi
L7 is M2 equivalent. Just apply for eng manager roles and they will figure out how to level you in the interview based on your performance and resume. After L7 title is Director.