When a woman accuses an employee (especially high profile managers and executives, such as the case at Uber), I feel that the man is automatically assumed guilty unless proven otherwise. In such cases, are women required to present evidence of the incident or is just enough to "come forward" with her side of the story and then the man will most likely lose his job and has his life, career and reputation destroyed forever? I have two compelling questions that I can't find the answers for: 1. What happened to innocent until proven guilty in these cases? 2. What if a woman is lying? How is the man protected in this case? Can you project your answers on the Uber case or any other famous case? I am seeking real logical answers so answers like "why would a woman lie" are automatically dismissed as bullshit nonsense
Have you read the blog post? She said she presented screenshots to HR; if this were untrue, don't you think Uber would have immediately said she was lying?
She presented screenshots could be true. The content of the screenshots could be anything. In any case Uber investigated all of this. It is possible that more severe action was taken in the cases as it was under media watch.
Some of you are getting hyper for no reason, NO ONE is saying problems don't exist for women in social and professional settings.. but it's ridiculous to turn a blind eye on Men being victims of false accusations, one such example is http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4671800/Woman-guilty-falsely-accusing-15-men-rape.html and certain countries have guilty unless proven innocent which means you're fucked for no reason.
Omg, not at all the same thing
Chances of you being falsely accused are much, much lower than the chances of one of your loved ones to be actually raped. Same thing in the workplace.
Evidence sometimes is not present. Because often times these conversations happen in private. Do you suggest every woman carry a tape recorder in their pocket every day or do you think managers are stupid enough to proposition in front of other people (although it seems some are )
I've read a lot of stories on blind of women reporting something but not having evidence. Looks like evidence is required.
Of course it happens! Men are much more sexual than women. Imagine a 4/10 subhuman male engineer encountering a 5/10 female. He's going to be pretty damn horny and hit on her
OP as a woman I'm trying very hard to be open minded here and understand your POV. Can you share what you would consider "evidence" in such a case? I ask because I assume you have an idea of what, in your opinion, we should consider evidence other than the word of a possible victim.
I am also trying to be open minded here and the fact that some people are convinced that the man should be assumed guilty even if no evidence is present is just beyond me. There is simply no logic in that. Evidence can be a surveillance camera recording if available, thumbprints if he touched her, residue of fabric from her clothes on him, and let me even suggest that any pointers about him being too flirty in IM or emails can help. I am sure that professional investigators can provide more solid examples of evidence that can be used in such cases. But looks like you are saying that it is sufficient for a woman to say "my evidence is that there is no feasible way to provide evidence" and it is purely illogical and unjust. Add to that there is no sane judge or investigator who can use such arguments or reasoning in any other type of crime such as theft, murder, etc.
So basically you need enough evidence to write an episode of CSI before you believe anything has happened? I feel you have unrealistic expectations. When someone is being harassed they're not always going to have the presence of mind to approach the situation like a forensic tech at a crime scene.
Microsofter...explains why the terrible logic.
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Yes of course evidence is required. You seem to assume that there is no process. By the time these high profile cases become public a lot has happened behind the scenes. Further women are historically victimized at the workplace. It's very important to take all victims seriously. I'm no expert on this but have taken management hr courses and it's a really complex issue. The accused harasser is not guilty until proven innocent just like the accuser is not lying until proven otherwise.
"Victimized" is total BS. Evidence should be presented. Women playing the victim card is what makes things worse for innocent men. Plus, I doubt that high profile managers are found to be guilty before they are asked to leave. Most likely the company doesn't want to be disliked by the public so it is in the company's best interest to ask the executive to leave whether he is guilty or not. The man is the real victim in this case.
You should talk to some women to hear about all the shit they deal with daily. And then read about what happens to women who actually come forward. It's life-ruining shit, normally. False accusations happen rarely, but almost never compared to the real cases, especially considering that 99.5% of harassment instances go unreported. Educate yourself.