I know so many jobless CS grads from second tier uni. These kids are not too bad and they are very eager to do IT jobs such as Ops. Companies like Cognizant, TCS, iGate, Wipro etc... hire thousands and thousands of h1b and l1, why don't they hire these students instead? Many jobs WITCH do basically very simple tasks and these kids can pick up with very short training even if they have no experience
Because these companies only exist to promote H1B fraud.
Coz locals can’t breathe in toxic culture that these companies have!
H1B exploitation. Engineers from other countries (China, India etc.) will work hard and for lower pay just to stay in the US till they can find a better job. Often some decent ones too, who are going through a phase of bad luck. Case in point: I have a friend who graduated from NYU with an MS in CS a few months ago. He's from India. Due to the COVID situation, the job market is kinda crap so he couldn't find a decent job. Since he only had 60 days to find a job or be deported, he joined TCS so that he can stay in the US and keep looking for a better job. Dude is a decent engineer for sure, better than the average Joe from a tier 2 college. But it's just the circumstances. So these companies get relatively decent engineers for a lower pay that they know rely on an H1B and therefore can be exploited like hell.
dude will regret that deerly, top tier firms will not look at his resume if he does ops and gigs work which is common tasks for these outsourcing companies. His better choice would be to either move to Canada or return to India and find a proper job
You writing algorithms at BOA?
ROI A entry level Comp Science engineer in India has a starting pay of about 5k USD per year and this hasn’t changed for the last 12 years. For a lot of these employees working in US/EU markets is a key goal in life. After 3 years of workex they usually choose roles and companies based on “on-site” opportunities they can get I.e. H1B visa approved and posted in locations abroad. They usually leave companies and jobs based on this one factor alone. I have heard so many say “hey I’m not keen on continuing here since I haven’t got any on-site opportunity for the last one year despite promises”. So you gotta understand how ingrained that culture is in the WITCH companies. Working abroad is considered base stakes for software engineers in India and in many communities the man’s (arranged) marriage prospects are tied to it. Add to it the chance to get a good jump in salary and good quality of life and these folks are super eager to be in USA. Many of them will penny pinch their stay in US to maximise their savings. Having got an opportunity to on-site they will ensure they don’t let it go for any reason by maximising their work hours or accepting any demands by their employers. The reason I’m giving this background is to understand what mindset these folks have and the reason they get exploited by WITCH. Now WITCH companies have access to such employees who will be ready to work for a low pay ( relative to US standards) AND sacrifice all their WLB to keep their employees and clients happy. Some may call it hard work but it’s actually a pretty toxic culture. Would the average American be ready to spend 12 hours a day and weekends in office if necessary for a paltry pay? They wouldn’t. So this is the ROI these companies find so attractive and they wouldn’t get this from local hires. Source for my observations: I’m based in India and 90% of my cousins and school classmates all are in USA in software engineering jobs.
this is very good insight! I agree no American students will work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for 80K, however not many WITCH workers are that hard working and spending long hours does not equate to higher productivity and better work quality
Spot on! Also, they can ask you to change location or clients anytime. They don’t care about uprooting your family. One of my friends was asking for relocation as his pregnant wife was in another state. Infosys refused and asked him to travel during weekends (it was a 10 hour drive) He did that throughout his wife’s pregnancy. In the ninth month, the baby wasn’t moving as much but wife didn’t go to hospital alone since he usually takes her. He had taken leave for the last few weeks and was excited about the birth of his son. He came home the next day and took her to hospital and baby boy was already gone! 😢 Infy managers called him on Monday (he had informed them via email about this and said he will be on leave) He took the call thinking they are calling to say sorry. The a$$holes called him to ask “when are you coming back ? You aren’t needed there anymore right? You either come back or we will terminate your job.” He then requested for a relocation and they said “nope! Either come back or we are done!” The actual client managers (Americans) on the other hand sent him and his wife cards and flowers, and told him he doesn’t have to worry about work and to take as long as he needs. Also whenever he is ready, he can work from home as his wife needs him. When he informed his Infy manager, the ass said “but it’s not our policy - and you are working for us. We need to show our data to clients and our selling point is we have people onsite... not work remotely” Any American would have sued their a$$ but Indians can’t - especially since they are on visas.
Are you the same person who recently created a post about failing an interview because you thought other person was hired because they knew the hiring manager? If you’re then please take a chill pill and move on. People gave you good advice on that thread as well, you’re not going to get anymore sympathy.
Forget WITCH. They are a blot and not worth joining either for Indians or for anyone else. Sad work culture, low pay, toxic managers, long hours. I wouldn't recommend anyone to apply for Indian IT consulting service companies unless that's the only option you have.
For the thousands of students graduating from the thousands of no-name engineering colleges in India it’s really the best option. It’s the best possible work environment they can get with decent perks, steady income and a professional culture. Outside of IT, Indian companies in the traditional sectors like manufacturing, telecom, FMCG etc are 10x worse when it comes to culture, professionalism, pay and WLB. Management in IT will still talk to you professionally even if many are toxic af. In many of the other sectors, esp in family owned businesses, you will be treated very unprofessionally, have swear words hurled at you regularly, won’t get salaries on time (delays upto 3 months are common) have no work life balance all the while when the owners are minting money and living in luxury. IT industry in India allowed people, including senior management to be addressed by their names, which was a revelation for most people when they joined. In other industries you gotta address everyone senior to you as “Sir” only. IT industry normalised the 5 day working week culture in India, else in other sectors its 6 day working weeks. IT sector and WITCH companies had swanky campuses and modern facilities for their employees which was unheard of in India at the time and still is. If you visit non IT companies and have a look at their facilities you’d understand the vast difference. Even a simple act of going “casual Fridays” in the IT industry where employees could dress in T Shirts and Jeans was revolutionary at a time when many “professional” employees in India had to wear a tie. The global exposure many employees got in WITCH directly led to the creation of a startup culture in Bengaluru. So yeah WITCH has its problems sure, but it’s quite easy to understand why it still remains a huge draw for most Indians.
I completely agree with what the current scenario mentioned by Amazon. However, I beg to disagree it's the best option. Being risk averse is very risky for a populous country like India. Jobs are slowly becoming a pipe dream and unemployment is touching all time highs in India and everywhere. You have no dearth of problems and yet people are made to believe a 3L per year job is the best bet you have in life. I feel that's just miseducation. India has 4G now. The power of internet reaching everyone whatever no name engg college they are in. India and the rest of the world need to realize betting on safe jobs is high risk. You might as well take some risks, invest in yourself, build skills, build something that is sellable. I don't want to use the entrepreneurship word but sooner or later everyone has to have a backup. A backup if not a job. If you have a backup (higher education, side gig, teaching, hobby, research, internships, YouTube channels, whatever), build it up and explore. The issue is after bachelors there is this pressure to exploit. Find a job that pays. Those are the best years of life that someone gives to WITCH at virtually peanuts and they use it to gain massive profits at your expense.
Who said they are relying on H1B. They are relying on people on F1 OPT and CPT. They are many universities offering day1 CPT. F1 OPT and CPT need not even file for LCA and they can work for very less amount like $30 to $40. There are only 65K H1 created yearly and most of them goes to F1 students anyway. Those days where WHICH companies rely on H1B and L1B are gone.
New grads from US will run away in 2 days if they work for WITCH. They pay 90K avg for 12-14hr/day work. Which one of you is up for that?
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Cost!
h1b is expensive and the job pay is not too low, 120k-140k is very decent pay for new grad in low cost areas such as Dallas, WITCH charges clients 150-300/hr for each "resource" so that is 300-600k a year in revenue for each "hire"
WITCH pay 80-90k by bringing in people from India.. 150-300/hr rate is unheard of. They don’t have talent that deserves that high a rate!