Setting up some context, numbers may be off and we'll ignore any raises, but bear with me Long tenure L4 TC breaks down as 150k base 30k bonus 80k RSU /4y TC 260k Long tenure L5 breaks down as 200k base 60k bonus 140k RSU /4y TC 400k Part of the reason comp is busted is RSU stack up trailing grants, that's why even though 140k TC is actually 35k per year, you have a stack of four of them adding back up to 140k An L4 promoting to L5 will not have the trailing stack of RSU, instead their TC will slowly converge with that of an L5 over the next 4 years Right after promo their TC will be L5 base + L5 bonus + L4 RSU, so 340K, then 355, then 370, then 385, finally reaching 400k after 4 years Instead, had they went to another company they would have got 400k TC immediately, by sticking up with promo they let go 150k To compensate for that potential loss of talent, the company should come up with this number, they can because after all that is what they are paying a new hire. Upon promotion to L5 the employee must receive a 150k RSU grant, but at least at Google we don't
Congrats!! This. Also, you can “promo” on your own time, easier, than waiting for a company event for a committee to get together and heckle your promo packet while continuing to do their day job. #justleave On a side note; I’ve often advocated that we should get rid of promo and also allow FTEs to just interview for the next level up. But that means there wouldn’t be a cost savings.
This. Having been going through the promo process recently, I spent a TON of time writing docs about what I worked on the last 5 years and why I deserve a promo. I hate it, I'd rather be delivering actual value rather than arguing for promo. Meanwhile, I see people get hired into the role I want with just a couple days of interviewing. SO much easier, and they get paid more too! I considered applying for the position as an external candidate to see how far I would get before they realize I already work here. IMO the promo process needs to be easier than external hire, otherwise you're just incentivizing your top talent to leave. Spoiler: I'm leaving
I wouldn’t say easier, but I’d say equal. Otherwise I agree.
U forget, Mr googler, the new hires are 50% better than the tenured employees at that level.
People don’t know this?
Funny enough jumping vs internal promo depends on interest rates. For so long external hiring was aggressive because all of the money glut flowing in making it possible to offer aggressive pay bumps to outsiders. As that slows down, companies will become more and more risk averse and internal promos will be more reliable than jumping around. There is a reason boomers who lived their professional lives in the 80s with 15-20% interest rates are so shocked by the idea of jumping around so often
Boomers were also incentived to stay at companies for 20+ years since they were receiving a pension.
This is a stupid take. Your TC is determined by the cost of labor in thr specific market. Interest rates have nothing to do with it .
You need to understand why by default companies pay more to external hires than ppl who stay. From a company’s perspective you are a resource. People who stay more will continue to stay anyways - so no incentive there. Also lets say attrition is 15% we pay market salaries to these people, it does not Make economic sense to increase pay for existing 85% because mist of them any ways don’t leave - may be another 10% would leave still company is in profit. Basically it does not make Economic sense. Also lets say some long tenured resource left, managers would have already made a backup for such departure or the new joinee might not perform for 3-6 but companies are fine to take that small risk.
Yep. I put this under the “because they can” attitude. Ethical implications? I think so, I would think I’m cheating the very people who are committed to making the company better. But, at some number of FTEs, that becomes less and less of a risk/concern.
ok, but what about the case where you stay and get promoted like crazy? I make 7 figures and have only moved internally within the company.
Gotta get retention grants.
Can you explain with some examples of how to get them? Thanks.
Get outside offer, ask boss to match it, hope for the best.
Jumping around comes with associated risk (of new manager, new team, new product/tech stack to learn from scratch and many more macro risks if you join a startup). Thus, your comparison is not an apples to apples comparison as right now you are comparing bonds (your current company where you are comfortable) to stocks (risky startup or other FAANG company where you have no connections or know-how). Please do a risk-adjusted comparison and you’ll understand why Google gives smaller incentives for long timers vs new hires.
The advantage of staying at the same company/team is that you build domain knowledge, relationships and can keep getting promoted faster than jumping around and ramping up again, especially at high levels (sure not all teams and managers will offer that opportunity). If you are in such a team, I would advice you to stay until you get to a high enough level. Then you can jump ship for much more TC or try and get a retention offer (works at Google without consequences, every company is different in that regard) and keep getting promoted fast. That’s how all the young L7-8 I know at google did it.
you are risking 150k TC difference as a bet that you can promo twice during those 4 years, a fair trade-off if you're up for the grind
Only makes sense after senior level IMO. Easy to get a "promotion" hopping around at lower levels. Also though getting domain knowledge isn't always fun. You just get pestered more, things become (more) monotonous and boring.
I went l4 at 300k to near 500k as senior elsewhere. Promoted internally would’ve been 330k. 100% agree
Where did you go?
Probably Lyft 😂 @ksjvnawiv