HR 1044 passed with a thumping majority

Microsoft
Hodor

Microsoft

PRE
Expedia Group
Hodormore
Jul 10 240 Comments

364 yeas to 66 nays

Senate will be next whenever the bill there is unblocked. A super majority there will make it a law straight away. No question of Trump approving it then.

America wins today

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TOP 240 Comments
  • Facebook kobay
    Great job! Bye bye to all non Indian tech workers in America for next 20 years.
    Jul 10 36
    • Amazon yup!
      Go check the public stats
      Jul 11
    • HID Global Huiya
      yup! Just because you say doesn't make it true. If you are referring to public stats post it here. Stop being those ppl who seat on thier couches and judge the world.
      Jul 12
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Gehjiddrt6

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      Gehjiddrt6more
      I think yup! does not have enough intelligence to process things. Anyways, these employers are running a business, not some charity and they are hiring for a reason. That reason is above his pay grade to even begin to understand.
      H1 Visa is just a blocker for them nothing else and more than that it is a way of filling vote bank in next elections for politicians and people like these are puppets for getting votes.
      Jul 12
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      @Docusign
      “Yeah this kobay dude is just spreading false information, does he have proof to back it up there are more people in queue from cognizant than FAANG ?”

      https://www.myvisajobs.com/India-PERM16CT.htm
      Jul 13
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Gehjiddrt6

      Microsoft Eng

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      Gehjiddrt6more
      Not latest data. No trust to this website. I can create one of my own and send you the link.
      Also, does not say they were non deserving.

      And most importantly if you have so much issues with this bill that it would be abused then the right way is to not let then be in green card queue rather than slowing down process for good candidates unfairly.
      Jul 13
  • Amazon yup!
    Sad day for America if it passes. I want a solution for my Indian colleagues in tech, but I don't want to reward the consulting spam that makes up the majority of the backlog, and I certainly don't want to see my colleagues from other countries stuck behind all those horrible spam applications.

    We need a points system to get greencards to the right people with no wait.
    Jul 10 12
    • Amazon yup!
      The quota can't increase endlessly. I guess no matter what the quota is there will always be more applications than spots

      Canada has a points system where they adjust the number of points needed to get a spot every year in order to control the number of qualified applications.

      That makes it fair and also no wait. You either get in, or get denied.
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft
      Hadoopie

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      Hadoopiemore
      But proportionate to the size of US and demand, the number of Gcs is very less. Somewhere I read employment based GCs are the same as PRs offered by Australia. The total number of GCs in employment category in US is 200-250K and it includes all family members. Compare that to 300K plus express entry invites that Canada gives out (and they don’t include family members). And, Canada wants to increase it to a million. US gives out 50K diversity visas every year that do not include family members - so it could lead to 100K-200K green cards just based on lottery every year. Now sure - US can do whatever it wants - but I think most Americans don’t know how the immigration system of Us works and doesn’t optimize for anything - it is completely archaic.
      Jul 10
    • Amazon yup!
      Two separate questions here:

      #1 how many visas should be offered

      #2 how to choose who gets them

      We need a solution to #2 regardless of whether we increase visas.

      The fundamental problem right now is that total applications exceeds total visas. So long as that's true the queue grows. Today the growing queue impacts only Indians, but if you remove the country cap the queue STILL GROWS. Allocating them to different people doesn't actually fix it.

      It's not a solution at all until you find a way to select the best applications within the quota, then deny the rest, so there is no queue.
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft
      Hadoopie

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      Hadoopiemore
      Sure - solving for 2 is not easy. People look at Canadian points systems as some kind of an ideal system - it is not. It treats all experiences as the same, it treats all undergrad schools as the same - it over indexes on age - yeah but somethings are good - it rewards Canadian experience and Canadian education - so be it. Whatever the case - a comprehensive reform is needed and I see no hope of that happening before 2021 (I am betting Trump would win and given that this is core to his platform he will try and pass something - although what is passed may work against me and many other people but either way there is a chance)
      Jul 10
    • Amazon yup!
      I agree it's not an ideal system, but neither is it ideal to have no points and basically create a free-for-all

      Open to suggestions on how to select people, but we need to select somehow. Can't just be first come first serve with laughably minimal criteria.

      Even if you believe in taking people proporty by country we aren't even getting the good Indians, they are stuck in like behind garbage people. And there are a lot of great applicants from India who are screwed right now.

      But also the current system kind of works just from a sort of dumb luck that the abuse is coming mainly from one country so the country cap kind of limits of. Not only kind of, and not in a fair way.

      But removing it without solving the problem just Maya it suck for everyone instead of only some. It's not a solution, it's just spiteful. "I got screwed at fuck everyone else", that's just emotional. Not an actual improvement.
      Jul 10
  • Apple / Eng Marijuana
    Regardless of this bill, 140K employment-based green cards will be issued every year. If you think they should be given to those who earn more, are more skilled, and have a longer track record of success in the US, you should be in favor of this bill.

    Also regardless of this bill, ~85K H-1B visas will be issued every year. The Senate version of this bill will fix a lot of the abuse, increase fines for companies who violate the law, increase the authority of the government to investigate abuse, and also create an online job portal where Americans can apply first to every job for 30 days before an H-1B visa is granted. If you think those are good changes, you should be in favor of this bill as well.
    Jul 10 50
    • Apple Wharton
      Being born in a small country shouldn't give you an automatic advantage either.
      Jul 13
    • Microsoft oMAG58
      Ergo, merit-based.
      Jul 13
    • Apple Wharton
      Democrats won't let a "merit based" system happen unless they also get amnesty for 11-12 million and also giving green cards to everyone in the entire chain migration backlog (which can't be done without also giving green cards to everyone in the EB backlog).

      It's easy to cling to abstract ideas like "merit based" and be blind to the reality that they have zero democrat support. Democrats will not let merit-based fixes happen unless they also get what they want elsewhere in the immigration system.

      You might not like to read this, but that doesn't make it less true.
      Jul 13
    • Microsoft oMAG58
      As long as it's coming from the right, it's not getting support by Dems. That certainly doesn't mean the idea itself will never get support. Also, merit-based shouldn't have to touch on family-based, it should only touch on employment-based.
      Jul 13
    • Apple Wharton
      It's not about "coming from the right". It is the idea of a merit-based system itself that Democrats don't like, but they might be willing to swallow it if combined with a massive amnesty and daca and other things.
      Jul 13
  • Tableau krxi15
    I don’t understand the blaming of Cognizant and the likes, someone please explain?

    Cognizant provides cheap and low quality labor to American companies, its the American company that wants to go to cognizant and get cheap labor rather than paying top dollar and hiring a skilled candidate directly.

    Cognizant is just filling the void that american companies created, how is this considered bad by any means?

    Just like you and me and everyone in tech knows that cognizant has bad quality, but companies are still willingly choosing it to save money. It’s simply you get what you pay for. If American companies start hiring skilled employees directly then Cognizant has no business. So aren’t we blaming the wrong party here?
    Jul 10 14
    • Amazon lgtmshipit
      @yup! There is an underlying fallacy to your arguments in this post that you are not admitting to:
      You're talking about the problem of "quality of workers" but using "per-country caps" as the tool to address it. That is fundamentally flawed, because that tool is not even meant for that purpose. It is meant to ensure diversity. Speak to that motive and we can have a logical discussion. Otherwise, your whole argument is wrong.
      Jul 10
    • Tableau krxi15
      Dude, but an american company is contracting them to bring such shitty manager. Its clearly what you pay is what you get.

      If the client company wants to get a really good manager then they should have hired someone directly.
      Jul 10
    • Amazon yup!
      And they will keep doing that until we stop the abuse. I don't want any of these abusive people to be rewarded.

      The lever we can control of the immigration law that is being abused.
      Jul 10
    • Tableau krxi15
      @amazon, I dint even mention quote or immigration. I am just discussing the fact of blindly blaming the wrong entity when the problem lies with the American companies wanting to save money and going to Cognizant.
      Jul 10
    • Amazon yup!
      I'm blaming the correct entity. Cognizant is a deeply unethical company and should be shut out of the immigration system completely.

      Of course third world labor is cheaper.
      Jul 10
  • Microsoft sillyboi
    These kind of Bill's been passed in house before too. Doesn't mean a damn thing. Senate will never pass anything esp for legal immigration esp Indian.
    Jul 10 8
    • DocuSign / Eng
      fOfz04

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      fOfz04more
      Under Obama it was under different name and I think ma' man Jeff Sessions filibustered it
      Jul 10
    • DocuSign / Eng
      fOfz04

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      fOfz04more
      I think this time it will Rand Paul
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft sillyboi
      Google HR3012. It was passed in house in 2011 with even greater majority than now. 389-15. But just went on to die like expected. IV and other scammers just getting some mileage.
      Jul 10
    • Facebook kobay
      I hope it faces same fate.
      Jul 10
    • Intuit GTO
      Rest assured kobay, this will never pass.
      Jul 11
  • Amazon lgtmshipit
    @RoW people who oppose this bill

    If you cannot compete skill wise with people from TCS, Infosys and the other so called "cheap" consultancy companies and need the per country caps to hide behind to save your jobs and place in the USA, how are you meritorious?

    And why should any employer pay you more money for the assumed "low skilled" jobs that anyone from TCS, Infosys can do? Entitled much? If you are truly meritorious, you should not be competing for those jobs anyway... Or is the real reason, you go for such jobs is that you are just not skilled enough for the truly high end jobs?
    Jul 10 4
    • Amazon yup!
      It has nothing to do with competing, it's not a merit system so your whole post is wrong.

      The current system accepts more applications than there are visas and that results in a queue. Most of these applications are absolute shit, but because it's not based on merit, but rather on waiting time, that shit applicants end up ahead of good ones in the queue.
      Jul 10
    • Amazon lgtmshipit
      Absolute shit? Most of them? According to who? You?
      And these are employment based categories. Get enough people from the RoW to outdo these Indians to grab these jobs and these "assumed" shitty applications cannot even get filled isn't it?
      Jul 10
    • Amazon yup!
      It's not a merit system, the minimum qualifications are laughable. As a result Indian consulting companies are able to spam thousands of crap applications. They see up the "schools" that bribed their way to accreditation but aren't worth shit. They actually train people only AFTER that win, because they were actually unqualified before winning the lottery.

      They don't win by being better. They will be filing thousands of applications knowing that a percentage of them will win.

      It's a denial of service attack on the system.
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft oMAG58
      If H1 work visas were granted based on skills, then your argument would be 100% correct for people who oppose this bill. But it's flipping not. Your argument is ignorant af.
      Jul 11
  • Comcast dontdie
    To all the people who say “why should I give a fuck” including US citizens:

    This bill is good for US. People stuck in long Green card queues are slaves to their employer, and it has a wage-suppressing effect that spills over to all tech workers in theory. This bill sets them free. Personally I am looking forward to a merit-based system, but for now this will do. Call your senator to support this.

    Some people who are working just because their kids are US-born and they need a job to maintain legal status will actually retire! They can leave the workforce, or go back to home countries knowing that they can visit their children in US whenever they want.

    All the Breitbart misinformation calling this “giveaway” is xenophobic crap. The total number remains the same.
    Jul 10 5
    • Amazon plummet
      Is this bill becomes law does it mean the green card backlog line will reduce?Wouldnt the backlog still exist?
      Jul 10
    • Amazon yup!
      Wrong. This CREATES long queue for many people and shortens it for a few. Today most applicants don't wait.

      It also does nothing to reduce the imbalance between applications and visas so the queue KEEPS GETTING LONGER.
      Jul 10
    • Comcast dontdie
      @Plummet: Backlog will exist but not by a lot. The estimate is that all priority dates till 2016 will become current. The reason is that unused country caps will become a part of common pool. Eg if Norwegians aren’t queuing up to become US permanent residents, their cap gets released to common pool

      @Yup! - And that’s unfair how? If this passes everyone will wait by roughly the same amount, regardless of their country of birth. 2-3 years isn’t that bad.
      Jul 10
    • Amazon plummet
      So if I apply for a green card in say 2019 then I should get it in a year yeah?..Also what’s the probability of this passing in the senate ?
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft sillyboi
      ^ zero
      Jul 10
  • E*Trade / Finance cbEV72
    Wtf is this about? Why should I care?
    Jul 10 5
    • DocuSign / Eng
      fOfz04

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      fOfz04more
      Yes if you are Indian else no Fucks given
      Jul 10
    • DocuSign / Eng
      fOfz04

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      fOfz04more
      Okay may be few fucks if you are waiting for employment GC and not from india
      Jul 10
    • E*Trade / Finance cbEV72
      Is this good for us?
      Jul 10
    • Thumbtack lmEM47
      Good for US to have less diverse work force and push some elites back to their home country to make their country even stronger :)
      Jul 10
    • DocuSign / Eng
      fOfz04

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      fOfz04more
      Employment GC serve economic goal not social engineering, you want diversity increase diversity Visa lottery from 50k to 500k
      Jul 10
  • GE jjdndn
    Doing PHD for EB1 is faster than Senate approving this Bill
    Jul 10 0
  • LinkedIn mtndew💚
    Please pass it so all the Indians can stop whining about it here
    Jul 10 1
  • Facebook public2
    Zero chance in the senate. House passed for show.
    Jul 10 20
    • Microsoft Tattle
      Your point was proven when I said your attention is all I seek 😀. Alright, jokes apart. My deal is that I have been in the GC q for about 9 years now. I realized a couple years ago that I would not be held hostage to a broken immigration system and made the choice for me and my family to move back to India in a couple years. I advice all my frnds to take a deep look at your situation and decide if u really want to chase the American dream. For some, it makes sense to stay back as they have all their family and relatives here or they dislike India for its problems. I totally get that and respect the choice. But ppl who stay on the fence and just postpone the decision and don't plan for their future, it's them I try to educate and push towards making a life decision. Do u get my deal now? 🙂
      Jul 11
    • Intuit GTO
      Still don’t see why you called me out haha. However , I commend you for making a decision about your life. Good on you for that.

      Here’s my reality, I’d be happy to leave. My partner on the other hand will not return and I don’t blame her for not wanting to go back. Her life is so much more liberated here, granted she could try for something similar there but she has to put in effort and make adjustments.

      She’s willing to make that trade off and this isn’t someone I want to walk away from. Tough, right?
      Jul 11
    • Microsoft Tattle
      I was just poking fun. Didn't mean to call you out. As far as your situation is concerned, my wife thought the same way but everything changed after we had a kid. You need ur family around u as u need help raise kids. U have to think about ur kid's future, what happens if ur visa is rejected and u have to take ur kid back when they r in their teens. They don't want to move. Another problem is what do u do if one of the parents dies, I know a couple cases where the kids didn't want to move back even when the dad was dead and the mother wanted to because she was all alone. Life is always tough for first Gen immigrants. The question is do you want to go through that pain and uncertainty. Once u have kids, everything changes.
      Jul 11
    • Microsoft Tattle
      Couple more important things to consider, would you be able to save enough to retire here? If not, move early. If yes, then u r rich and u wud have a much more comfortable life in India. Also, what Wud u do about ur parents when they need u. The guilt of not able to take care of them when are in their 80s is real. Just pumping money from here creates frustration and nothing else. The point of freedom for women here is just an illusion, u get the same liberty in india. Women have this tendency of not liking change. They want stability.
      Jul 11
    • Intuit GTO
      Haha I hear you man but it’s a losing battle. Partner has a sibling to care for her parents and I don’t.

      I completely get where you come from but my partner and I are polar opposites when it comes to these things. That is it’s own challenge in itself. *sigh*
      Jul 11
  • Facebook / Mktg ifme
    It's about time! I have been contractor for 10 years and still stuck in stupid queue. I have paid my taxes and it's only fair that I get my green card than some random Iranian getting their green card in 2 years.
    Jul 11 9
    • Adobe / Eng pFYF55
      ifme you are trolling right?
      Jul 11
    • Facebook / Mktg ifme
      Do you think it's fun to wait for 10+ years with no hope?
      Jul 11
    • Veritas mojojojox
      "DO NOT FEED THE TROLL"
      Jul 12
    • Microsoft HqoA11
      You wish you were iranian you fcuking racist
      Jul 14
    • Facebook / Eng kobay
      What the hell is up with You Indian and Iranian fighting over this bill
      Jul 14
    • DocuSign / Eng
      fOfz04

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      fOfz04more
      CIS is a xenophobic publication
      Jul 10
  • Microsoft Tattle
    Calm down fellow Indians. Thus means jack shit, this bill would dies it's slow painful death in senate. Someone or the other will keep blocking it. Even if it passes, you really think Donald trump would sign it? When all his immigration policies are against more immigration? I pity the Indians.
    Jul 10 11
    • Microsoft Tattle
      Oh ok. They still have to move back in some instances where let's say the kids are 12-17 yrs old and the parents visa doesn't get renewed. Also, there are cases where kids were brought at a young age to America do they only know America as their country but they grow old on H4 and then can't even work after college. It's an ugly situation but parents know in advance what they are signing up for.
      Jul 10
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Microsoft Tattle
      Yup. That my friend is exactly the problem. People get sucked into the charm of US of A. Trips, fancy cars, great infra and by the time they realize they shud move back they are in their late 40s, kids in late teens and it's too late to move back.
      Jul 10
    • E*Trade / Finance cbEV72
      Never too late to go home
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft Tattle
      I hear you but kids with kids in the equation it's very different. I don't know if u r Indian and if u'd get what I am saying but when kids have grown up in the US and move back when they are 13-18 yrs old. It's almost impossible for them to adjust back. You have to move back when they are young.
      Jul 10
  • Microsoft / Eng
    Gehjiddrt6

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    Gehjiddrt6more
    Even if it does not get passed, i like that people now care. It was just ignored for long time even for high skilled or more deserving people because of birth country and other reason like abuse by consultancy firms.
    Jul 10 16
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Gehjiddrt6

      Microsoft Eng

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      Gehjiddrt6more
      Not every applicant but applicant from any nation will face equal amount of wait. Currently only Indian origin and Chinese people face the wait
      Jul 10
    • Amazon yup!
      So every applicant will face a greater than ten years wait whereas today MOST applicants have no wait.

      That's a huge step backwards
      Jul 11
    • Google Warguyver
      That doesn't sound right, 10 year waits are only for Indians due to the cap. If the cap were to be removed, that 10 year Indian wait would be amortized amongst everyone to a 2-3 year wait.
      Jul 11
    • Amazon yup!
      No, currently Indians face a greater than 100 year wait, which will become a greater than ten year wait for everyone once the bill passes.

      And since it does nothing to bring the number of i140s issued in line with the number of visas available the ten year wait will grow to twenty and eventually a hundred years for everyone.

      So today most people don't wait. After this bill everyone waits over ten years.

      It's a horrible bill. It takes a situation that is only horrible for people from one country and makes it horrible for everyone.
      Jul 11
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Gehjiddrt6

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      Gehjiddrt6more
      I think you don’t want to understand the situation and the details but just want to focus on the point that it was unfair for Indians for so long, let it be this way and because others don’t care since they aren’t from India or China.
      I don’t want to repeat all my points again going in a loop, i think you should read in details about some Visa processes and this bill.
      Jul 11
  • Microsoft
    Hadoopie

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    Hadoopiemore
    This will be filibustered in senate - I guarantee that - all you need is one senator - if there were 66 nays in house you can be sure you will find one senator to block it. In 2011 I think a similar law was passed with an even bigger majority and senator grassley blocked it (he is still there). Anyway - even after passing of this bill Gc backlog for Indians won’t be solved. The solution is to increase GC quota for employment based, creating a prioritization mechanism that favors people with higher skill/ income or some combination so that the Cognizants of the world don’t exploit the system - in conjunction with that there should be no per country quota as well.
    Jul 10 6
    • Amazon / Eng
      aHOM24

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      Working at Amazon an a Software Development Engineer
      aHOM24more
      How come only one senator is all it needs to block a bill ?. Don't u need only 60/100 to pass a bill to become a law ?
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft
      Hadoopie

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      Hadoopiemore
      You clearly don’t understand how filibuster works
      Jul 10
    • Qualcomm GoTAlgo?
      Please explain.
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft
      Hadoopie

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      Hadoopiemore
      Jul 10
    • Microsoft hdjdkdnrbe
      Still 2/3 (60%) is all my colleagues need and I wish them luck! From the link you shared
      Under current Senate rules, any modification or limitation of the filibuster would be a rule change that itself could be filibustered, with two-thirds of those senators present and voting (as opposed to the normal three-fifths of those sworn) needing to vote to break the filibuster.[56] However, under Senate precedents, a simple majority can (and has) acted to limit the practice by overruling decisions of the chair. The removal or substantial limitation of the filibuster by a simple majority, rather than a rule change, is called the constitutional option by proponents, and the nuclear option by opponents.
      Jul 10
  • Google cEMj22
    It's not going to pass Senate.
    Jul 10 0
  • DocuSign / Eng
    fOfz04

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    fOfz04more
    So I can has GC 🧐 but I am sure there will be at least one senator who will have some kind of objection and it will be blocked again, this is not the first time it has passed house
    Jul 10 0
  • Yeah. 84% voted in YES
    Jul 10 0
  • Microsoft EjSq85
    What does the timeline for this look like? If at all there is a chance, when does it become a law , given it has passed in the house ? Also, How does this affect high skilled applicants from other countries ?
    Jul 10 2