364 yeas to 66 nays
Senate will be next whenever the bill there is unblocked. A super majority there will make it a law straight away. No question of Trump approving it then.
America wins today
364 yeas to 66 nays
- Facebook kobayGreat job! Bye bye to all non Indian tech workers in America for next 20 years.
- I think yup! does not have enough intelligence to process things. Anyways, these employers are running a business, not some charity and they are hiring for a reason. That reason is above his pay grade to even begin to understand.
H1 Visa is just a blocker for them nothing else and more than that it is a way of filling vote bank in next elections for politicians and people like these are puppets for getting votes.
- Not latest data. No trust to this website. I can create one of my own and send you the link.
Also, does not say they were non deserving.
And most importantly if you have so much issues with this bill that it would be abused then the right way is to not let then be in green card queue rather than slowing down process for good candidates unfairly.
- Sad day for America if it passes. I want a solution for my Indian colleagues in tech, but I don't want to reward the consulting spam that makes up the majority of the backlog, and I certainly don't want to see my colleagues from other countries stuck behind all those horrible spam applications.
We need a points system to get greencards to the right people with no wait.
- The quota can't increase endlessly. I guess no matter what the quota is there will always be more applications than spots
Canada has a points system where they adjust the number of points needed to get a spot every year in order to control the number of qualified applications.
That makes it fair and also no wait. You either get in, or get denied.
- But proportionate to the size of US and demand, the number of Gcs is very less. Somewhere I read employment based GCs are the same as PRs offered by Australia. The total number of GCs in employment category in US is 200-250K and it includes all family members. Compare that to 300K plus express entry invites that Canada gives out (and they don’t include family members). And, Canada wants to increase it to a million. US gives out 50K diversity visas every year that do not include family members - so it could lead to 100K-200K green cards just based on lottery every year. Now sure - US can do whatever it wants - but I think most Americans don’t know how the immigration system of Us works and doesn’t optimize for anything - it is completely archaic.
- Two separate questions here:
#1 how many visas should be offered
#2 how to choose who gets them
We need a solution to #2 regardless of whether we increase visas.
The fundamental problem right now is that total applications exceeds total visas. So long as that's true the queue grows. Today the growing queue impacts only Indians, but if you remove the country cap the queue STILL GROWS. Allocating them to different people doesn't actually fix it.
It's not a solution at all until you find a way to select the best applications within the quota, then deny the rest, so there is no queue.
- Sure - solving for 2 is not easy. People look at Canadian points systems as some kind of an ideal system - it is not. It treats all experiences as the same, it treats all undergrad schools as the same - it over indexes on age - yeah but somethings are good - it rewards Canadian experience and Canadian education - so be it. Whatever the case - a comprehensive reform is needed and I see no hope of that happening before 2021 (I am betting Trump would win and given that this is core to his platform he will try and pass something - although what is passed may work against me and many other people but either way there is a chance)
- I agree it's not an ideal system, but neither is it ideal to have no points and basically create a free-for-all
Open to suggestions on how to select people, but we need to select somehow. Can't just be first come first serve with laughably minimal criteria.
Even if you believe in taking people proporty by country we aren't even getting the good Indians, they are stuck in like behind garbage people. And there are a lot of great applicants from India who are screwed right now.
But also the current system kind of works just from a sort of dumb luck that the abuse is coming mainly from one country so the country cap kind of limits of. Not only kind of, and not in a fair way.
But removing it without solving the problem just Maya it suck for everyone instead of only some. It's not a solution, it's just spiteful. "I got screwed at fuck everyone else", that's just emotional. Not an actual improvement.
- Apple / Eng MarijuanaRegardless of this bill, 140K employment-based green cards will be issued every year. If you think they should be given to those who earn more, are more skilled, and have a longer track record of success in the US, you should be in favor of this bill.
Also regardless of this bill, ~85K H-1B visas will be issued every year. The Senate version of this bill will fix a lot of the abuse, increase fines for companies who violate the law, increase the authority of the government to investigate abuse, and also create an online job portal where Americans can apply first to every job for 30 days before an H-1B visa is granted. If you think those are good changes, you should be in favor of this bill as well.
- Democrats won't let a "merit based" system happen unless they also get amnesty for 11-12 million and also giving green cards to everyone in the entire chain migration backlog (which can't be done without also giving green cards to everyone in the EB backlog).
It's easy to cling to abstract ideas like "merit based" and be blind to the reality that they have zero democrat support. Democrats will not let merit-based fixes happen unless they also get what they want elsewhere in the immigration system.
You might not like to read this, but that doesn't make it less true.
- I don’t understand the blaming of Cognizant and the likes, someone please explain?
Cognizant provides cheap and low quality labor to American companies, its the American company that wants to go to cognizant and get cheap labor rather than paying top dollar and hiring a skilled candidate directly.
Cognizant is just filling the void that american companies created, how is this considered bad by any means?
Just like you and me and everyone in tech knows that cognizant has bad quality, but companies are still willingly choosing it to save money. It’s simply you get what you pay for. If American companies start hiring skilled employees directly then Cognizant has no business. So aren’t we blaming the wrong party here?
- @yup! There is an underlying fallacy to your arguments in this post that you are not admitting to:
You're talking about the problem of "quality of workers" but using "per-country caps" as the tool to address it. That is fundamentally flawed, because that tool is not even meant for that purpose. It is meant to ensure diversity. Speak to that motive and we can have a logical discussion. Otherwise, your whole argument is wrong.
- These kind of Bill's been passed in house before too. Doesn't mean a damn thing. Senate will never pass anything esp for legal immigration esp Indian.
- @RoW people who oppose this bill
If you cannot compete skill wise with people from TCS, Infosys and the other so called "cheap" consultancy companies and need the per country caps to hide behind to save your jobs and place in the USA, how are you meritorious?
And why should any employer pay you more money for the assumed "low skilled" jobs that anyone from TCS, Infosys can do? Entitled much? If you are truly meritorious, you should not be competing for those jobs anyway... Or is the real reason, you go for such jobs is that you are just not skilled enough for the truly high end jobs?
- It has nothing to do with competing, it's not a merit system so your whole post is wrong.
The current system accepts more applications than there are visas and that results in a queue. Most of these applications are absolute shit, but because it's not based on merit, but rather on waiting time, that shit applicants end up ahead of good ones in the queue.
- It's not a merit system, the minimum qualifications are laughable. As a result Indian consulting companies are able to spam thousands of crap applications. They see up the "schools" that bribed their way to accreditation but aren't worth shit. They actually train people only AFTER that win, because they were actually unqualified before winning the lottery.
They don't win by being better. They will be filing thousands of applications knowing that a percentage of them will win.
It's a denial of service attack on the system.
- To all the people who say “why should I give a fuck” including US citizens:
This bill is good for US. People stuck in long Green card queues are slaves to their employer, and it has a wage-suppressing effect that spills over to all tech workers in theory. This bill sets them free. Personally I am looking forward to a merit-based system, but for now this will do. Call your senator to support this.
Some people who are working just because their kids are US-born and they need a job to maintain legal status will actually retire! They can leave the workforce, or go back to home countries knowing that they can visit their children in US whenever they want.
All the Breitbart misinformation calling this “giveaway” is xenophobic crap. The total number remains the same.
- @Plummet: Backlog will exist but not by a lot. The estimate is that all priority dates till 2016 will become current. The reason is that unused country caps will become a part of common pool. Eg if Norwegians aren’t queuing up to become US permanent residents, their cap gets released to common pool
@Yup! - And that’s unfair how? If this passes everyone will wait by roughly the same amount, regardless of their country of birth. 2-3 years isn’t that bad.
- Your point was proven when I said your attention is all I seek 😀. Alright, jokes apart. My deal is that I have been in the GC q for about 9 years now. I realized a couple years ago that I would not be held hostage to a broken immigration system and made the choice for me and my family to move back to India in a couple years. I advice all my frnds to take a deep look at your situation and decide if u really want to chase the American dream. For some, it makes sense to stay back as they have all their family and relatives here or they dislike India for its problems. I totally get that and respect the choice. But ppl who stay on the fence and just postpone the decision and don't plan for their future, it's them I try to educate and push towards making a life decision. Do u get my deal now? 🙂
- Still don’t see why you called me out haha. However , I commend you for making a decision about your life. Good on you for that.
Here’s my reality, I’d be happy to leave. My partner on the other hand will not return and I don’t blame her for not wanting to go back. Her life is so much more liberated here, granted she could try for something similar there but she has to put in effort and make adjustments.
She’s willing to make that trade off and this isn’t someone I want to walk away from. Tough, right?
- I was just poking fun. Didn't mean to call you out. As far as your situation is concerned, my wife thought the same way but everything changed after we had a kid. You need ur family around u as u need help raise kids. U have to think about ur kid's future, what happens if ur visa is rejected and u have to take ur kid back when they r in their teens. They don't want to move. Another problem is what do u do if one of the parents dies, I know a couple cases where the kids didn't want to move back even when the dad was dead and the mother wanted to because she was all alone. Life is always tough for first Gen immigrants. The question is do you want to go through that pain and uncertainty. Once u have kids, everything changes.
- Couple more important things to consider, would you be able to save enough to retire here? If not, move early. If yes, then u r rich and u wud have a much more comfortable life in India. Also, what Wud u do about ur parents when they need u. The guilt of not able to take care of them when are in their 80s is real. Just pumping money from here creates frustration and nothing else. The point of freedom for women here is just an illusion, u get the same liberty in india. Women have this tendency of not liking change. They want stability.
- It's about time! I have been contractor for 10 years and still stuck in stupid queue. I have paid my taxes and it's only fair that I get my green card than some random Iranian getting their green card in 2 years.
- Calm down fellow Indians. Thus means jack shit, this bill would dies it's slow painful death in senate. Someone or the other will keep blocking it. Even if it passes, you really think Donald trump would sign it? When all his immigration policies are against more immigration? I pity the Indians.
- Oh ok. They still have to move back in some instances where let's say the kids are 12-17 yrs old and the parents visa doesn't get renewed. Also, there are cases where kids were brought at a young age to America do they only know America as their country but they grow old on H4 and then can't even work after college. It's an ugly situation but parents know in advance what they are signing up for.
Flagged by the community.
- I hear you but kids with kids in the equation it's very different. I don't know if u r Indian and if u'd get what I am saying but when kids have grown up in the US and move back when they are 13-18 yrs old. It's almost impossible for them to adjust back. You have to move back when they are young.
- Even if it does not get passed, i like that people now care. It was just ignored for long time even for high skilled or more deserving people because of birth country and other reason like abuse by consultancy firms.
- No, currently Indians face a greater than 100 year wait, which will become a greater than ten year wait for everyone once the bill passes.
And since it does nothing to bring the number of i140s issued in line with the number of visas available the ten year wait will grow to twenty and eventually a hundred years for everyone.
So today most people don't wait. After this bill everyone waits over ten years.
It's a horrible bill. It takes a situation that is only horrible for people from one country and makes it horrible for everyone.
- I think you don’t want to understand the situation and the details but just want to focus on the point that it was unfair for Indians for so long, let it be this way and because others don’t care since they aren’t from India or China.
I don’t want to repeat all my points again going in a loop, i think you should read in details about some Visa processes and this bill.
- This will be filibustered in senate - I guarantee that - all you need is one senator - if there were 66 nays in house you can be sure you will find one senator to block it. In 2011 I think a similar law was passed with an even bigger majority and senator grassley blocked it (he is still there). Anyway - even after passing of this bill Gc backlog for Indians won’t be solved. The solution is to increase GC quota for employment based, creating a prioritization mechanism that favors people with higher skill/ income or some combination so that the Cognizants of the world don’t exploit the system - in conjunction with that there should be no per country quota as well.
- Microsoft hdjdkdnrbeStill 2/3 (60%) is all my colleagues need and I wish them luck! From the link you shared
Under current Senate rules, any modification or limitation of the filibuster would be a rule change that itself could be filibustered, with two-thirds of those senators present and voting (as opposed to the normal three-fifths of those sworn) needing to vote to break the filibuster. However, under Senate precedents, a simple majority can (and has) acted to limit the practice by overruling decisions of the chair. The removal or substantial limitation of the filibuster by a simple majority, rather than a rule change, is called the constitutional option by proponents, and the nuclear option by opponents.
- What does the timeline for this look like? If at all there is a chance, when does it become a law , given it has passed in the house ? Also, How does this affect high skilled applicants from other countries ?
- PayPal kochikame3-4 more months according to https://www.timetoast.com/timelines/how-a-bill-becomes-a-law--7