Is India a failed state?

Amazon Aqq3Pr
Jun 12 163 Comments

Broke in pieces in a civil war, poverty-stricken, polluted, terrible endemic diseases, corrupt, split up along tribal and sectarian lines, crumbling infrastructure, and its to people fleeing to the US and elsewhere.

Indians talk a big game but it feels like the end game. Pakistan and Bangladesh even worse, the whole region is crashing.

Is India a failed state?

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TOP 163 Comments
  • Bloomberg / Eng
    YUNOSlayer

    Bloomberg Eng

    PRE
    Bloomberg LP
    YUNOSlayermore
    Your lack of world knowledge is showing if you think India is a “failed state” ...
    Jun 12 2
    • New litasf
      OP is some Mallu, who thinks the fairy tales of Nehru, Gandhi he read in History textbook of India is real. Lol.
      Jun 12
    • Amazon
      madarrr

      Amazon

      PRE
      Amazon, Salesforce, Google, Microsoft, Apple
      madarrrmore
      Clearly OP didn't travel enough. There're 195 countries in the world.
      7d
  • New litasf
    OP is some Communist mallu, most of his things doesn't match with reality.
    Jun 12 102
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      We are talking about India being a failed state, not investing opportunities.

      What's true is that failed states are a good place to invest because they do have high growth rates owing to having very high risk. This is all consistent with India's economic numbers.
      6d
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      We are talking evaluating the progress of an entity over time. Take any metric or any context, it is plain old math, it doesn't lie. Except you dont like the truth it is telling in this case
      6d
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      We are talking about whether today India is a failed state. What it might be in a hundred years is a very different question. Today it's a failed state.

      In the future it's highly unlikely India will sustain high growth rates without fixing the systemic problems. Growth is easy when you make $5/day and a lot less easy once you make $20/day. The trivial improvements are exhausted at that point.

      See China's growth, which USED to look like India's until they hit that ceiling.
      6d
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      It is an evolving entity. Point in time decisions are of no consequence. It would be a failed state it had no potential to recover. All am saying is that I see evidence that it can. Maybe you don't and that's ok too!!
      6d
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      Then admit that today it's a failed state and just say in your opinion you think it's of no consequence.

      It seems to be highly consequential to the millions of Indians who are voting with their feet, though!
      6d
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      I just said it is not in my opinion because trends show that it is improving. Maybe we have different definitions of it, hence the disagreement. The millions who are also dont believe it is a failed state, just like me.
      6d
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      When your per capita GDP is under $10/day is you didn't have a high growth rate you would have massive famine and widespread death.

      That is not convincing.
      6d
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      You don't have to be convinced. You're saying it is shitty and that's why it is failed. I am saying I agree certain things are shitty but if you look at them individually they seem to improving over the last 70 odd years since independence. That in my book is not failed. It would be failed if it trended negative, like with libya and bangladesh we saw negative slope in growth curves. That's what I am trying to argue.
      6d
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      I did not say why it failed. I pointed out that it is failed and listed the various specific aspects of the fail, none of which anyone disputed:

      - failed healthcare system and widespread epidemics of preventable diseases, including a horrific, out of control tuberculosis epidemic

      - failed education system and widespread illiteracy

      - corrupt government with police and courts that can be bought and institutions that fail to operate effectively due to graft

      - crumbling infrastructure and lack of basic services like clean water, electricity and basic sanitation

      - sectarian violence, reprisals, and institutional complicity

      - toxic levels of pollution at all levels including poisoning of the air, water and food supply as well as dangerously unsanitary conditions

      - mass exodus of people intent on getting themselves and their family out of the country

      - terrible crime rates, where criminals go scot free and crime is under reported, because the police can be bought, particularly rapes and sexual assaults

      - extreme levels of poverty, half the country living on $5/day with institutionalized inequality; many of the poor are relegated to slums and shut out of even the most basic services
      6d
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      Ok here are some responses. Hope this helps. Some of this is anecdotal obviously, but hopefully it helps get you a better sense of the reality.

      on failed healthcare: I will give you the TB problem, and that one is also being resolved through DOTS. Lots of work remains though. In general the average doctor in India is much smarter than one in America. A lot of people travel from various parts of the world to get treated in India, because healthcare is affordable and really good, especially in big cities. Not something you can say about the US, especially given the nightmare that insurance companies have built. Add the opioid crisis and large scale sugar addiction + heart disease to that and US starts looking quite bad as well. It is hard to get healthcare right even for developed countries.

      on illiteracy: statistics suggest it has improved leaps and bounds. My own cousins who are younger have much higher opportunity and access to IITs etc than I did growing up. Massive deltas there.

      on corruption: You'd be surprised. I come from a pretty corrupt state in India, growing up corruption was the way of life, but things sure have changed. I recently invested in a property and just had to go to a govt office, fill out an application online, wait for registry to happen online and be synced to a central server. Got done in a couple of hours without paying a single penny to anyone. Had a similar experience with passport renewal recently as well, zero rupees spent! That too in a state that was known for corruption growing up.

      on infrastructure: It wasn't bad across india to begin with. I spent a considerable time in Gujarat, electricity was constant and water was pure and accessible even back in early 2000s. My state used to have constant power cuts, but that has changed completely in the last couple of years as well. Parents don't recall last time they lost power! And we're talking about one of the worst states in terms of infra.

      on sectarian violence: I feel this is like gun violence in US. Media would have you think it is doomsday but the probability of a realistic threat to an average citizen is super duper low. Quite uncommon, but media darling because of clicks.

      on pollution: absolutely a problem, and no solution in sight.

      mass exodus: in my pack of about 20 cousins, I am the only one who is here. Doesn't seem as mass to me as you would argue for. I am unsure of the stats on this one, so if you've seen something let me know.

      crime rates: continues to be a problem but has also massively improved. Growing up, there were so many unsolved murders in the city I am from. I was reading a news report last time in India that unsolved murders are down by 60% in the last 5 years. Again, not sure of India-wide stats here and happy to see something you might have access to.

      on poverty: absolutely a problem, but i feel we have beaten the growth rate argument around too much, let's agree to disagree here.

      Hopefully this gives you a sense of where I am coming from and why your arguments don't really agree with me. If it was a failed state I wouldn't be anecdotally seeing so much change, is the way I see it.
      6d
  • Amazon
    Amz

    Amazon

    BIO
    Yo-yo Chen
    Amzmore
    Define. Failed state. Are you comparing Iraq and Syria (or any non Emirates Islamic country) to India? Then by facts the answer to you question is “NO”. Source- https://www.weforum.org/about/indias-turn-to-transform

    If you are comparing it to the US then your definition is flawed - Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state

    Based on your random post it feels you have not done enough research and are unfit to be at Amazon. You will be PIP’d soon - Source: Your MANAGER.
    Jun 12 10
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      "A failed state is a political body that has disintegrated to a point where basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government no longer function properly.

      ...

      When this happens, widespread corruption and criminality, the intervention of state and non-state actors, the appearance of refugees and the involuntary movement of populations, sharp economic decline, and foreign military intervention can occur."

      Sounds like India
      Jun 12
    • Amazon
      Amz

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      Amzmore
      Are you stupid or delusional or both at the same time? India democratically elected one party over other. None of the parties have failed to function properly.
      Jun 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      You elected a war criminal who was responsible for a sectarian massacre and the thing is he was probably actually better than the totally corrupt alternative.

      Fail.
      Jun 12
    • Amazon
      Amz

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      Amzmore
      I didn’t elect anybody. I am an American (my parents are from India). India did not elect a war criminal. He has been cleared of all the charges from Supreme Court of India. People of India are not stupid - you cannot win elections of biggest democracy in the world by playing Religion Card. Modi did the work and he got elected (period)
      Jun 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      Ah ok, so India elected a war criminal who was in fact probably better than his corrupt opponent.

      I don't see the courts of a failed state so being credible and it's public knowledge that the court whitewashed it, never even hearing from police witnesses who had first hand knowledge of Modi's crime. That's what happens in banana republics.

      I think the International Criminal Court should review the case at it's looked at by an objective court rather than one that can be bought.
      Jun 12
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      Oh OP so that’s what you’re salty about. This explains a lot. Give it some time to sync in, you’ll be fine.
      Jun 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      That's just one of the points
      Jun 12
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      How does Trump compare to Modi? Does election of Trump take the USA towards failed state?
      Jun 12
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      On the other front, looking at various angles or parameters, I couldn’t find anything on which the conditions are worsening. If you want to call India a failed state then it always was a failed state.
      Jun 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      Possibly, yeah.
      Jun 12
  • Salesforce Usbj01
    You can say a lot of that abt the entire world. Is it a failed world then?
    Jun 12 2
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      Nope, I've lived in a few countries and none of them were failed states like India
      Jun 12
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      I have too, and I disagree. What else you got?
      Jun 12
  • New litasf
    I am far more convinced that leftwing is more racist, anti-secular than today's right.
    Jun 12 1
    • Oracle / IT
      l00tb0x

      Oracle IT

      PRE
      Ericsson, National Instruments
      l00tb0xmore
      I may be a libtard, but I agree.
      Jun 12
  • Google rafaNadal
    Things that Amazon does to you :)

    On a serious note - almost every country has its own set of problems and flaws. What about gun violence and homelessness in the US?

    There are a handful of countries without major problems, and most of them are in a stable economy in Europe.

    Remember that every developing nation goes through turmoil. US and UK did, too. It’s too short sighted to call India a failed state without actually seeing how it’s improving and becoming one of the biggest economies in the world.
    Jun 12 0
  • Microsoft 47$dhra7
    lol .. How dumb you have to be to ask something like that. Are you sure you got in Amazon?
    Jun 12 0
  • Google wHtB0a
    I initially read the title as "Indiana" and voted yes.
    7d 0
  • Microsoft !MSFT
    Troll level: -2/10.

    I say eat more bananas and try harder.
    Jun 12 0
  • New / Eng Hoik
    What's mallu?
    Jun 12 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      No you weren't, I'm not from the part of the world
      Jun 12
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      You’re flinging personal attacks to by calling everyone names. It just hurts more when it happens to you.
      Jun 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      I'm not hurt, it shows I won
      Jun 12
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      Won what? You didn’t convince anyone except yourself. So it could only be that you were right but you still were unable to convince folks or that you were wrong and all of this is an unsuccessful attempt at trying to prove some wrong assumptions. Doesn’t sound like winning to me
      Jun 12
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      I say you didn’t convince anyone because you poll numbers suggest so. Oh wait, you hate polls too....
      Jun 12
    • New / Eng :)(:
      What's mallu though?
      Jun 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      A third of people think India is a failed state and a lot of those voting no are Indians who would never want their children to suffer living in India because it's a failed state but who couldn't emotionally bring themselves to admit it.
      Jun 12
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      A third is in no way a majority. And you are no reader of emotions sir. Maybe you’re the one who feels that way and this post is a projection. That sounds more accurate
      Jun 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      Nah, you know a lot of h1b's who love to yell "jai hai" but also would never ever want to live in India again. They know I'm right despite their fake vote.
      Jun 12
    • Salesforce Usbj01
      No one yells, “jai hai”. Just saying! Lol
      Jun 12
  • Apple lithiumbat
    India has committed genocide against the Sikhs.
    Jun 12 5
    • New litasf
      I agree but Sikhs vote for Congress in Punjab. Keep whining Pakistani.
      Jun 12
    • Apple lithiumbat
      I’m not Pakistani lol
      Jun 12
    • New litasf
      Jun 12
    • Apple lithiumbat
      Would you believe me if I told you I was white and that I’ve researched the atrocities committed against the Sikh people?
      Jun 12
    • New litasf
      I already said I agree that Sikhs were genocided. They were burned alive, raped, killed by mob. I added ahead, Sikhs vote for those today who did this and supported it. Ever researched this?
      Jun 12
  • Microsoft NJCW72
    Like you said there are too many issues in India. For too many issues, Good enough time is needed. It is not gonna change in 5-10 years. But it can improve and it is improving.
    Jun 12 3
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      All failed states can say that. One day Venezuela and Zimbabwe will be doing well too.
      Jun 12
    • Microsoft NJCW72
      Offcourse.... They will. All countries should focus on improving rather than comparing who is failed and who is not.
      Jun 12
    • Microsoft NJCW72
      Your definition of failed country is immature. I believe the country which is not able to improve itself is a failed state at present time.
      Jun 12
  • Xilinx LWkj71
    Hilarious comments and arguments. I don't agree with OP about the failed state. But quite possible it stays in a limbo. Some progress but mostly static. That's what it feels like. You gotta agree about exodus. Nobody with decent education wants to live there.

    I'll spare you the hate comment. I'm indian and I would hate to go back. It's the truth.
    Jun 12 2
    • Verizon Media sxSG85
      By far the only comment which made sense to me. I wouldn't go back either lol, but it is def not a failed state.
      Jun 12
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      It's good for the US, we are getting a lot of good people coming from India, Syria, etc.

      It's usually the top people who can get out of a failed state, and even when you look at the uneducated people coming through family and asylum programs the ones who actually manage to get here tend to be more resilient, they were actually able to tough it out and get here where others couldn't or we too lazy or whatever.

      I believe America is exceptional precisely because throughout our history it's always been the smartest, or toughest, most capable people who have made it here.

      It's our gain and India's loss that the top 0.1% of Indians have come to America.
      Jun 12
  • New / Strategy
    Porsche996

    New Strategy

    PRE
    Tesla Motors, BMW, Robert Bosch
    Porsche996more
    Why didn't you retain my prof Raghuram Rajan? He was the best and I guess the country got so far.
    Jun 12 1
    • New litasf
      Yes "best" guy and look at all the huge amount of NPA he and Manmohan has generated. Next few decades are harsh for this country.
      Jun 12
  • Amazon lwri07
    Yeah India is a fucked up place. Thank you OP for enlightening me. You are the best human on earth. You should be the dictator of this earth. So that you can nuke whatever place you don’t like.

    OP you’re the best.
    Jun 12 0
  • Uber ri8ri8
    Give them sometime
    Jun 12 2
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      Given more time even more of their best people will have fled
      Jun 12
    • Uber ri8ri8
      India is at positive expectancy, with time it would increase
      Jun 12
  • Oracle / IT
    l00tb0x

    Oracle IT

    PRE
    Ericsson, National Instruments
    l00tb0xmore
    The region between Israel and China pr is jolly fucked up. Only people coming from there think it's the norm. Wonder why they go to USA to live...
    :(
    Jun 12 1
    • Amazon Aqq3Pr
      OP
      Some truth to that
      Jun 12
  • Apple / Eng
    T1m Cook

    Apple Eng

    PRE
    Facebook, Google
    T1m Cookmore
    Just count how many Indians around you have a plan to go back home and work for their motherland...
    3d 0
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    No, This is just what capitalist development and modernization looks like. It can be a corrupt free-for-all or an oppressive state-controlled process... or anywhere between.
    Jun 12 0
  • Apple labbs
    Yoga option .. do you know, that Yoga was given to the world by the “failed state”.
    Jun 12 0

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