I already posted about my experience with tek systems from a couple of years ago. Long story short - answered a phone, got thrown an hourly rate and having to be on site. I think at that point the person on the other side did a Jedi mind trick and I somehow found myself on track for an interview. Last thing I remember saying was that the rate should be at least 50% higher and that I’m not too keen about on-site. I believe I did the interview well - finished all assignments with time to spare, had a friendly interaction with everyone, until the last behavioral I guess part. There I just went on a rant about all this, why am I in a relationship with Tek system, why are they mediating, why do they exist, how did I end up here etc. The guy definitely found it funny, but I never heard back from anyone ever. Cool, it was a hiring spree, got a few offers, picked one, got all that I wanted and instead of commuting to Santa Clara or wherever for a shit wage I like snowboarded in the Andes, went to some festivals in Europe and became a resident of Nevada. Today, with this shit storm happening and my place folding I found myself in almost the same situation. I sent out like 30 applications, expecting at most a few to come through… and now I’m struggling to manage when to do all these screenings and panels and whatnots. Among these, I applied for an ad at Apple that’s pretty much been up a little bit after that interview of mine. This is directly at Apple, you don’t get someone from Tek systems on the other side. So this time I connected with a tech lead over there and was told that there are quite a few contractor roles open, and possibly a couple of full time, but pretty senior. That the bar for the contractor roles is generally lower, and that there is a very good chance that it can be bumped to full time. It’s basically the same sale that Tek Systems gave, but without the Tek systems. And then literally that afternoon, I find a message from a Tek system recruiter about a contractor role at Apple… wtf I get that this is some corporate voodoo that my poor working class brain cannot comprehend, but it’s bothering me and I’d like to do my best to try, with someone’s help. I get that recruiters at fang make trillions of billions of dollars and that they have to only do like 0.273 hires per year. Meanwhile, I’ve been bending over backwards writing code 80 hours a week in startups for breadcrumbs. So I can see how a company would lose money by having their highly valuable in house recruiter talk to someone as cheap as I am. So I guess they outsource this to a different staffing entity, that has more reasonably priced recruiters and they deal with the bottom of the barrel such as my self. But then what are the odds of the bottom accepting this? When I interviewed I bogged down several of apples engineers and a manager for a few hours. Plus all the overhead that Tek Systems had went to waste. The lead spent maybe half an hour talking to me, and even if that costs more than Tek Systems search, contact, screening and all the overhead, I’d be more inclined to pursue this on account of direct contact alone. Is there some value attached to that? Plus, can’t I just say “give me exactly what Tek systems offer per hour + their overhead” and easily further increase the chances of accepting this? What am I missing here? I think that the ad I applied to recently (directly at Apple) has been up for two years. At the same time there is this other entity recruiting for themselves, but with the purpose of ultimately renting people out to Apple. Why isn’t there just a “freelancers, send resumes here” sort of thing? Would it make sense for this division at Apple to hire a single recruiter/screener for just these contract roles? Even just contracting that particular person, wouldn’t it be O(1) cost, so contractors could be offered higher wages? Is there something related to liability, benefits and whatnot? I got the impression that Tek systems offer something like that which otherwise may not be available to contractors? Am I not understanding the carrot of temp to perm? The temp rate was basically below slave wage for the Bay Area, so I figured the move to perm would reflect that as well, am I wrong? Please, I should be grinding leet code not thinking about this. Or if you have a startup idea spring up from this rant, I should be working on that with you.
It just doesn't work like that. Apple is not hiring fte now. To open a fte position it does require a massive amount of approval that is not passing through leadership now because of the moment of the economy. If you find a contractor role now I'd say you are a lucky one.
Like at Apple or in general? I mean I’m not dismissing anything, I definitely don’t think these are times of feast, but unexpectedly it may not be famine just yet :/
I haven't seen anyone new onboarding neither in person or on slack this year. My direct manager and VP both mentioned to me they cannot hire now. I would assume it's like this everywhere. There are better chances into smaller companies and startups. Some of them can be pretty good tough. Big tech I wouldn't spend time and energy trying for the next 6 months.
Ain't gonna read all that. I'm happy for you OP. Or sorry that happend.
Aw but you bothered to type that, and at least you’re not indifferent. Much love ❤️
What is the word limit on a blind post?
There will be some business master purchasing agreement between Apple and tek systems spelling out the statement of work, payment terms, liabilities and responsibilities. Apple doesn’t want to have to have some legal/GSM person deal with a contract for 1 person directly under a 1099 wage. So all the billing, benefits etc get farmed out. I think it would be incredibly rare unless it was a very specialized 1 of a kind person with $1M+ comp to have an individual contract.
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
TL; DR?
It’s just how things work at this scale. You can’t just go contract for Apple, you have to go contract for someone who is contracting for Apple. And it seems that there are a few very specific companies that do that.
Actually, there are larger agencies that are kind of meta-contractors. I work for an agency, but they have a number of people who are managed through a different agency. That agency works with a number of contract firms. So getting hired in as a contractor also means getting in front of one of those firms that has an agreement with the group managing the position you’re interested in. I have seen people convert to FT (generally after 1-1.5 years), but none that were new offers this year. Edit: there may have been conversions I have no knowledge of, granted.
One doesn’t simply contract for Apple. One contracts for someone who contract for Apple.
managers from apple are not supposed to provide performance coaching or training to contractors. They tell the contractor what to do and the contractor does it. The vendor provides the performance coaching. So if the person needs upskilling or coaching the manager tells the vendor and it’s up to the vendor. Metaphor: if I hire someone to paint a portrait, I give them all the expectations, but if they say “well I don’t know how to do that” or “can you just outline it for me”. That’s a loud NO. I’d contact the vendor and say they don’t sound like they can handle it. And it’s up to the vendor to determine a way forward… the vendor can send them to an art class, the vendor can coach them thru the portrait, the vendor can do nothing. Apple pays the contractor for their work and hours and pays the vendor for their management. So no you can’t just ask for all the money bc the vendor provides a service and is responsible throughout the engagement. That being said… pick a good vendor becuz their ability to provide resources and keep you on track (or not) can impact u
Yeah no, I think that this is a no go for me, unless the economy tanks so much that this is the only opportunity there is. Still confused about a bunch of things but these replies at least helped me a bit to take it at face value. Unless Tek systems works with other companies, I don’t understand why they aren’t called “Apple team B” or “Apple, the rotten apples” or something like that :)
The metaphor here would be, say you did all these commissions at all these churches and you’ve been doing it for 10 years, but you’re not exactly as famous as Michelangelo. Then someone contacts you and says they’ve got a job for you, but they’ll pay you half of your usual commission and they want to do the outlines. Something like that. Nah, go do the outlines and paint it yourself for that money, I’m good.
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You’re overthinking this. It isn’t easy to get headcount for teams. Contractor request are easier to approve than long term employment ones. Don’t take it personally it isn’t a reflection on you. Reputation of the company, Liability towards employees, long term costs, litigations for hiring-firing etc many considerations go into this. Freelance isn’t the same thing as a contractor coming from an organization that’s a buffer. If sh!t goes down the vendor gets dragged not them. And the vendor can be as bad to the contractors as they want without the company’s name being smeared in media.
Liability is the main topic here?
And I bet based on this that there is actually no way to land that contract role without the buffer being involved. So it’s not as simple as ANY temp to perm, it has to be a specific temp from this specific buffer. Blah :(